Seth Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Simple stage. Sitting at a table with 4 targets that have a playing card suit picture for a head in front of you... open a brief case, discover playing card and DON'T shoot the target with the matching suit you find on the card. Right. Look at the card and match the pretty picture to the one on the targets in front of you and don't shoot it. One more time... LOOK at the suit and MATCH the pretty picture... Apparently I forgot to look. I got color and couldn't remember what suit it was. 3 targets all 2 A, including 2 no shoots, 2 mikes, 1 FTE. RATS. FNG mistake made by an FNG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I was just Sunday remembering a stage that you had to repete a few words durring the shoot. It was hard to do. We just shot a stage that was called "Get Some" ...I want to do it next month and have the shooter say three times after the buzzer and before the last shot "Get Some"...Get Some.....!Get Some I hate the playing card thing too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 I looked at that card, closed the brief case and KNEW I was in trouble. Talk about not calling the shot. I was screwed before I engaged T1. I should've looked again.... or at least hosed em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Never shot a stage like that but I can see that under pressure remembering to NOT shoot a target would be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Simple stage. Sitting at a table with 4 targets that have a playing card suit picture for a head in front of you... open a brief case, discover playing card and DON'T shoot the target with the matching suit you find on the card.......FNG mistake made by an FNG. Yeah, and on the next stage, the description will say DO shoot the target with the matching suit. As for the FNG thing. Don't worry, you don't have to be a new guy to make the mistakes on that course. If you sit around and watch, many mistakes will be made. FWIW dj ps the good thing about it is that if you have developed the muscle memory and have practiced a bit, the shooting will become automatic as the subconscious takes over while the front of yo pumkin haid is sweatin' over which target to shoot/not shoot. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I hate stages like that. We SHOOT, we don't play memory... How about this: At the beep: Throw a dice, look at the number, multiply it by four, and that's the number of the target counted from the right you will have to start on. After engaging this target, skip one, engage one, skip two, engage one, etc., until you have engaged all 16 targets... Whatever happened to shoot 'em as you see 'em? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 It happens to all of us .............. this is a Bseevers classic stage design. I remember one particular COF where he made us look at the cards first, then engage 9 or 10 regular targets, then at the very end of the COF engage four color coded targets out of eight .... 4 targets being scored - and 4 targets being no-shoots depending on which color card you turned over. I totally blanked out ...... and just picked a color, shooting those 4 targets only to find out afterwards that I picked the proper color. But that was a pretty intense 5 seconds in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 I received some excellent advice.... SHOUT the card before engaging, so it sinks in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce282 Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I was on the same squad Seth was, and shoot the stage before him. First match since Nov 07, new sights on my G34, using my reloads for the first time, shooting with my left eye for the first time. Sit down, run thru the plan one last time, Shooter Ready, Standby, BEEEEP. Flip open the briefcase and stare at the Ace of Diamonds. Jump up, draw, and stand there thinking "Diamonds, that's the 3rd time in row for diamonds, whats up with that". Finally remember to pull the trigger. So Seth it's not just newbies. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) Here is the COF: I think it's better to NOT focus on the no-shoot target. What you focus on you will do, whether you wanted to or not. I looked at the card suit, found that target, then said to myself "shoot 1,2,4" (or whatever, I couldn't tell you which I drew now). Focus on the targets you DO want to shoot. I didn't actually do it in words like that, but I saw which was the noshoot and mentally pictured which 3 I DID want to shoot as the gun was coming up. My screw up for the day was forgetting 2 targets on stage 6... 4 Mikes, 2 FTEs, 20 lost points. I hadn't screwed up that big in YEARS. That killed my match. Was a great day, with great stages. And at a local event like that, I don't mind the occassional screwy stage like with the card. Keeps things interesting and fun, with weird challenges to your routine... that can't be all bad. -rvb Edited March 4, 2008 by rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 I personally hate these types of stages. nuff said Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) I received some excellent advice.... SHOUT the card before engaging, so it sinks in. +1= I forgot, that works . That would be for what "rvb" said -only the ones you want to shoot. Its like saying don't look at the no-shoot . Its a Teaching rule "you guide the brain to the proper action" It is very slow learning to push the brain away from the wrong action. Like with an attractive lady friend, you don't want to think "Don't stare at her ...Chest" You want to thing "look her in the eyes '....Look her in the eyes Edited March 4, 2008 by AlamoShooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 (edited) I personally hate these types of stages.nuff said Alan + 1 Where is that well-made argument posted by Ron Avery about how USPSA today has too many gimmicks & games that have NOTHING to do with shooting skill? EDIT TO ADD (before I get called on it) - yeah, I am guilty of having designed that kind of stage back when Shooters was still around; the one I can recall designing had either a red or a black card you looked at, but you had to shoot your way through most of a regular stage and THEN remember to shoot the right targets out of an array of 4 at the very end of the stage. But I would not design that sort of stage in the future. Edited March 4, 2008 by Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken hebert Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Shot that kind of stage once in IDPA. Was colors instead of playing cards. BEEP!! Hammered 'em all. But damn I was fast! Was glad I could provide so much quality entertainment for soo many on our squad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Good thing you can't take a negative score. I shot a stage like this one time, 4 targets with one you don't shoot, reload and shoot the proper 3 again. I was pissed at the gimmick nature to start with and got lost about halfway through, so I shot them ALL 4 times each, reloaded and shot them ALL 4 times each, and put an extra one in each just for good measure. IMO it is incredibly dumb to even have a stage like this. I'll probably put a full mag on each one next time I see a stage like this or shoot the sticks off or something, I just don't have any tolerance for stuff like this. I'll go home either way, might as well be on an unsportsmanlike DQ. I'll take a shooting test measuring speed, accuracy and power if you don't mind, MD's can save the gimmicks for practice night or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 This stage cost me about 60 match points or so. The silly brief case would not open, cost me about 3.5 or so seconds to get the silly thing open. Then add in the door did not want to open. should have been a 13 second run turned into 17+ Nice run Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 In opposition to many who do not like this kind of stage, I'll support the use of such. If you can remember to avoid "no shoots" then you can handle a "random no shoot". The challenge is that you cannot simply plan how you are going to shoot the course during the walk through or while watching other shooters go through the course. This is a POSITIVE challenge, and not a "gimmick". It causes you to make conscious decisions AFTER the buzzer sounds, instead of making a plan before the buzzer sounds and carrying it out after the buzzer sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 "Hypothetical situation on" I am mad I did not shoot the same array as the guy that got to have the first target be a no shoot then had 3 in row that he could hose. I had one in the middle be the no shoot. While one on the end would be faster. Don't take this wrong, I love the matches at Fredericksburg Rod and Gun, they do a great job and always put on a great match, just posing the hypothetical situation. Thats the problem I see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Are these types of things more common in cowboy action shooting? I shot some demo cowboy action stages once and they all had phrases to say and things to do after the buzzer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scout454 Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) Be nice - that was the only decent stage for me in the match. Two shooters on my squad (TJ was one of them) ripped the briefcase open so hard the card got sucked up in the air and turned over and he/they had to reach in the case and turn it right side up. Edited March 5, 2008 by Scout454 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blueridge Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 "Hypothetical situation on" I am mad I did not shoot the same array as the guy that got to have the first target be a no shoot then had 3 in row that he could hose. I had one in the middle be the no shoot. While one on the end would be faster. Don't take this wrong, I love the matches at Fredericksburg Rod and Gun, they do a great job and always put on a great match, just posing the hypothetical situation. Thats the problem I see I can appreciate your standpoint, and see merit in your point that different shooters have to shoot the array differently. That is a much different concern than saying that it is a gimmick. The thing that all of the shooters share on such a stage is that none of them know how they will have to engage the array before seeing the card. They have to execute a plan they come up with on the fly, and I personally like the idea of that. I might totally screw up such a stage, But I would place the outcome of the stage on how I handled it. The credit or blame goes to me, not the stage. Shooters have ingrained in them that you don't shoot the "white" no shoots, but to make them have "random" no shoots changes the way they deal with a stage. Not being able to make a certain plan before the buzzer sounds takes shooters out of their "comfort zone", and of course some won't like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Find "practical" in random no-shoot targets...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) It's all about engaging your brain. If you have a loaded gun in your hand, your brain had better be in gear anyway. Stages like this exercise that concept a little more, as opposed to "shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out". Edited March 5, 2008 by Steve J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forester Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) Sounds like Fredericksburg last weekend, long enough day for everyone? I had a pretty good day (1st in L-10 ) and enjoyed that stage. My method for the card thing was to program the stage as though there were only 3 targets in that first array. When I sat down I just let the thought "don't shoot the card" through my mind. I know it does not really make sense but all I figured I needed was a slight reminder since I had already programmed to only shoot 3 targets there. P.S. High Standards Classifier 2 matches in a row for me Edited March 5, 2008 by Forester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Simple stage. Sitting at a table with 4 targets that have a playing card suit picture for a head in front of you... open a brief case, discover playing card and DON'T shoot the target with the matching suit you find on the card. Right. Look at the card and match the pretty picture to the one on the targets in front of you and don't shoot it. One more time... LOOK at the suit and MATCH the pretty picture... Apparently I forgot to look. I got color and couldn't remember what suit it was. 3 targets all 2 A, including 2 no shoots, 2 mikes, 1 FTE. RATS. FNG mistake made by an FNG. Seth, I think I even remember who RO'ed you on that run... I also remember the RO thinking, Oh crap, it was a diamond not a heart........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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