Bifocals question? Is this the right Rx for my eyes?

[boo radley]

I've noticed my front sight focus beginning to deteriorate over the last 2.5-3 years, which is as long as I've been shooting. I'm 42. My eyes are generally pretty good, but I have some astigmatism in my right (dominate) eye and this causes the front sight to flare or otherwise be not as crisp as I'd like.

I've got some money left in my health-care savings account, so I decided to get a custom Rx to make the front sight as sharp as possible. I'm not sure the visit was a success, and I'm more confused than ever -- the upshot is, I have a very expensive pair of plastic 'safety' style glasses coming with a bifocal insert for my right eye.

I'm really not sure about the bifocal business, but the eye doc (during the rushed 5 minutes he gave me) insisted I'd want them because otherwise I'd have "depth perception issues." He sent me to the practice's eye-glass store, and the woman there said she'd fitted lots of skeet shooters, etc., and what I was getting was perfect.

At this point, I'm not even sure if they're inverted or not, and wondering if I shouldn't cancel the order, try to get the Rx for the near correction, and just go somewhere else and get a pair of glasses with single correction in the right eye?

Thx!!

[Dan Sierpina]

I'm in my 50's. Like you, my distance is good, arms are too short for a sharp front sight. Some astigmytism too, but, that tends to improve with age for some reason. Anyway, my eye doctor wrote a prescription that's more of a compromise, front sight is pretty sharp, distance isn't really out of focus. He didn't recommend bifocals because of the movement involved with our game. I had glasses made by Decot, in Arizona. Great job, quick turnaround.

Hope this helps.

[lcs]

I started shooting USPSA 2 1/2 years ago with bifocals and you can forget iron sights with bifocals lined or not. The bifocals will not line with your shooting head position and you will constantly move "in and out of focus".

I found an eye doctor who understood how we shoot and he had made glasses for bow hunters also.

My Rx to see the front sight is at the top of my glasses not the bottom. So when you tilt your head slightly foward to acquire your shooting position, the sights are there and crisp the entire time your shooting. The targets are fuzzy, the sights are clear.

I still wasn't worth a crap anymore at iron sights, so I went to open. I shoot open with just normal shooting glasses. My vision past my arms is ok. Lot more fun and the eyes are not a factor.

Hope this helps.

Edited January 3, 2008 by FullRace

[MichiganShootist]

I have been doing pistol instruction for a lot of years... so I have worked with many people who have vision problems. As a 60+ shooter I too have my own share of "issues". (Strong bifocals and cataracts)

My best advice is that you go to no-line progressive style bifocals.... with large lenses. They allow shooters the best opportunity for both close up and distance vision... with out the quick snapping back and forth that you will get with a traditional multi-focal length lense.

Secondly make sure that your eye Doc. will take the time for you to experiment in his office during your vist. Use a pencil to simulate your pistol sights and try out the different powered lenses that he suggests.

I don't suggest special "shooting" glasses... because it takes the human eye several hours (up to 8) to adjust 100% between various eye glass formats. And you can't deal with that at every match-- or if you home is being robbed.

With aging eyes there is no 100% way for you to get super sharp vision at distance and up close. Sorry... there's just no way with iron sights to do that.

Good Luck.

[oldtrooper]

This is as good as it gets. You need a doctor that will spend the time, I suppose a optometrist could do the same. I was lucky, as a high school friend who was a doctor did mine for me. I discussed it before hand and took my handgun with me in a nondescript case and he did the following:

Actually measured the distance from my dominate eye to the front sight while I was holding it in a firing position.

He fitted the dominate eye lens to focus at that distance.

He fitted the non dominate eye lens to focus at infinity.

This is a clear focus on the front sight and the non dominate lens will allow you to look down range when you finish shooting or at anything at a distance and it will be in focus. This is as good a front sight focus as you can get without being a teen ager again. I use these glasses for shooting USPSA, IDPA, and Bianchi metallic sight. They take a little getting used to at first but it dose not take that long. I am a B class shooter in USPSA and hold a Distinguished Badge in Bianchi metallic sight. No way I could have done this without this prescription. I started shooting both in my mid 50's after I had been wearing prescription glasses for several years. I got this idea from a retired Georgia Patrol Captain when I started having problems with the front sight shooting PPC.

The only problem I had was that Henry was a Navy man. He could not understand why I wanted the front sight in focus and not the target. He finally gave up when I pointed out that I was the one paying.

[kevin c]

This is as good as it gets. You need a doctor that will spend the time, I suppose a optometrist could do the same. I was lucky, as a high school friend who was a doctor did mine for me. I discussed it before hand and took my handgun with me in a nondescript case and he did the following:

Actually measured the distance from my dominate eye to the front sight while I was holding it in a firing position.

He fitted the dominate eye lens to focus at that distance.

He fitted the non dominate eye lens to focus at infinity.

This is a clear focus on the front sight and the non dominate lens will allow you to look down range when you finish shooting or at anything at a distance and it will be in focus. This is as good a front sight focus as you can get without being a teen ager again. I use these glasses for shooting USPSA, IDPA, and Bianchi metallic sight. They take a little getting used to at first but it dose not take that long.

I agree bifocals wouldn't work for dynamic shooting (it might for static shooting like bullseye or precision rifle where you can take your time to get into exactly the right position for each shot). What you want is called monovision - a different correction for each eye - short (as in FS distance, as pointed out above, not reading distance) for the dominant eye, infinity for the other.

This is what I have done as well, only w/ contact lenses. Works for me, now into my 5th decade, and I shoot iron sights only at A and B class levels. I get around pretty well with one eye short and one long, but I use bifocals over the contacts to read and do close work, and the top correction is for the short eye so I can drive and see movies.

Some folks do, unfortunately, have trouble adjusting to the fact that they aren't using both eyes for everything, but, for shooting front post in rear notch on target, you can't anyway.

And there's always the dark side

Kevin C

[Throwin Lead]

If you want to try out a bifocal inexpensively purchase a pair of stick on bifocals to a cheater power of your choice and stick it on the top center your shooting glasses inverted (upside down D) so that when assuming the shooting position your eye will look through it. Use for the dominate eye only. Works well for me.

Cost is around $10. I bought 2 pair online - Link You may find them in a Walgreens as well. Just soak it a glass of warm water for a few minutes and apply. Remove when done. They can be trimmed to fit your lense if that is an issue. Just trim the flat part (straight side) not the curved part.

Give this a try this for $10 rather than get an expensive RX that isn't right.

[dickwholliday]

If you want to try out a bifocal inexpensively purchase a pair of stick on bifocals to a cheater power of your choice and stick it on the top center your shooting glasses inverted (upside down D) so that when assuming the shooting position your eye will look through it. Use for the dominate eye only. Works well for me.

Cost is around $10. I bought 2 pair online - Link You may find them in a Walgreens as well. Just soak it a glass of warm water for a few minutes and apply. Remove when done. They can be trimmed to fit your lense if that is an issue. Just trim the flat part (straight side) not the curved part.

Give this a try this for $10 rather than get an expensive RX that isn't right.

i just ordered replacement lenses for my Ranger glasses from Jack Wills in Fredericksburg Va...i got one set with my distance RX and an extra lense for my dominant eye with the RX for my front sight....i've done it this way for years and it works great....D I C K

[Revopop]

I'm not old enough to need bifocals yet, but I'm a certified optician with 4 years of experience.

Here's what would probably work best for you, as I've seen it work for pistol shooters I've done glasses for.

Have your optometrist write you a prescription for single vision lenses with your distance prescription in you non-dominant eye and your intermediate prescription in your dominant eye.

For example:

Bifocal Rx:

-1.00 -.50 x 90

-1.00 -.50 x 90

add 2.00

Your intermediate power is half the reading add. For 99% of people that is the Rx needed to see the front sight clearly, although it nevers hurts to actually try it out in your optometrist's chair. Take half the reading power and algebraically combine it with the sphere power, first number in the Rx.

So, for the above prescription, if your right eye is dominant, this is what the shooting Rx should look like:

0.00 -.50 x 90

-1.00 -.50 x 90

This will allow you to see the target clearly with your nondominant eye and see the front sight clearly with your dominant eye. It sounds complex, but your brain will sort it out without much difficulty. You'll naturally combine the 2 images after wearing them for a little while, although it may be a little weird at first when you're taping targets.

If that's not a clear explanation, I can get a little more specific. Hell, if you PM me your Rx I can convert it for you.

[boo radley]

Thx all -- some great advice here. In restrospect, I'm pretty unhappy with the way the visit went. I don't even *have* my Rx - it was shunted to the practice's store. I'm going to try to get it. It might be too late to cancel the order, but I think I need to find an optometrist who will take some time with me.

[ChuckS]

Morning Boo,

Here is the short version of my story. Going on 57 years old. Astigmatisim and sort of near sighted with prisim and some cornea damage on my dominate eye. For iron sights I tried a couple formats of bi-focals. Sort of worked but would never be fast enough for uspsa. Also, weird shooting positions made it inop. (I do wear progressives normally). I tried both eyes close. Didn't work for far targets. I tried dominate on the front sight, weak eye for distance. Didn't work out past 15-20 yds. I finally took the gun to the eye doc and we came up with a dominate eye script that is somewhere in front of the gun. I stood at the end of a long hallway and sighted on a poster that he had at the other end of the hall. With his lab glasses we develeloped a script that was a compromise of sight/target clarity. Works fine. As someone posted above, talk to Decot in Az. They know how to do it. Or try to find a local doc. You may ask some LEOs who they use. (or your fellow shooters!) Oh yeah, for open it is just both eyes far.

Later,

Chuck

[Alan550]

boo,

Glockopop nailed it, as did oldtrooper. I too am a Certified Optician with over 30 years in the business and what they're recommending is called "mono-vision". It will work with contacts as well as glasses. Find an Optician in your area who is "shooter friendly". There has to be at least one in the Raleigh area with the medical centers, etc. that are located there. Finding such a person may present some problems as we're engaged in a non-PC sport!

Do as oldtrooper suggested and take the gun with you in something non-descript, go to a private room and get measured for the distance from your shooting eye to the front sight. They should be able to take it from there. Get the shooting eye focused for the front sight and the other for distance (infinity). Also, have them place the optical center of the lense so that it sits exactly in front of your shooting eye when you are in shooting position. This usually means moving it higher and more towards the nose from its usual location. The way I do this is after making sure "SURE" that the gun is empty. I have the shooter get in the firing positions that are to be used, including prone, if that is a possibility, and I look down the sights in "reverse" and put a mark with a felt-tip pen at the spot(s) they're looking through the lens. Then I use those spots as the point where the optical center will be placed.

The NC Optician's license is one of the toughest in the nation to get, so you won't run into an unqualified one anywhere in the state. Some states don't even require a license, just hang up a sign with your name on it and the word "Optician" behind it, and you are one!!!

As for the "stick-on" bifocal, that will work as well and be considerably less expensive. If you can't find one on the reading glass rack at a drug store, ask an Optician to order one for you. They are called a Fresnel Lense. If you put it in the upper part of the shooting lense, put the flat part of the "D" down, and contrary to what Throwin Lead said you should trim the rounded part at the top, since trimming the flat section is cutting off the "optical center" in the lense and may cause some paralax in your sighting. Not a problem for close range shooting, but it compounds itself at longer distances.

Hope this helps, and good luck in your search.

Alan~^~

[cking]

Buy a squirt gun paint the front sight black and take that to the doctor or vision shop. They get less upset that way.

[Throwin Lead]

As for the "stick-on" bifocal, that will work as well and be considerably less expensive. If you can't find one on the reading glass rack at a drug store, ask an Optician to order one for you. They are called a Fresnel Lense. If you put it in the upper part of the shooting lense, put the flat part of the "D" down, and contrary to what Throwin Lead said you should trim the rounded part at the top, since trimming the flat section is cutting off the "optical center" in the lense and may cause some paralax in your sighting. Not a problem for close range shooting, but it compounds itself at longer distances.

Alan,

Thanks for the correction. I was passing along the info I recieved from the mfg help desk. I had to trim a very slight amount - maybe 2 razor blade thickness to move the flat line up so it didn't interfere with my normal vision & the mfg said it would be fine to do so. I guess their info is kinda OK considering 99% of the use of the product is for reading & not long distances. The stick on bifocal has helped me see the fronts sight more clearly but long term I would prefer the correct method & Rx to do so.

I'm due for an eye exam next month and will bring in my airsoft pistol and discuss the mono vision approach for my shooting glasses. Mrs. TL bought me a set of the ESS ICE shooting glasses with the Rx insert for Christmas so I can get properly fitted instead of the sticky lense.

I wore contacts from my teen years until I needed optical help for reading. The mono vison Rx for contacts didn't work well for me after several trys for some reason so I ended up with progressive lenses in glasses. I had issues driving at night with that set up. On coming headlights looked like I was viewing them in a kalidescope - it was wierd! That was when the optical industry first started addressing bifocal needs in contacts. Maybe the technology/product has changed since then and mono vision contacts would work for me today - I sure hate wearing glasses full time.

!

[Greg Bell]

I'm getting a set just as Glockopop described. My doc was cool, had me bring a gun in and experiment to get it dialed in just right. One thing for us that also RO/SO at matches is to verify that you can also focus at an acceptable reading distance to handle scoring, timing, stage descriptions, etc.

[Jim Watson]

I have been using monovision shooting glasses for some years. I started out with Alan Lehman in Arizona. He will send you three test lenses selected by your age and base Rx. Put on your regular glasses, look through the distance section if bifocal, aim the gun with the strong hand, and hold the test lenses over your master eye lens with the other. Note the one that gives you the best front sight. Send the test lenses and your order back to Lehman and he will grind your shooting glasses with the "add" of the appropriate test lens in the master side.

Now I have a local optometrist trained so I don't have to bother with test lenses to get the aiming eye correction right, but it was then the only way to get started at the time.

[Revopop]

I wore contacts from my teen years until I needed optical help for reading. The mono vison Rx for contacts didn't work well for me after several trys for some reason so I ended up with progressive lenses in glasses. I had issues driving at night with that set up. On coming headlights looked like I was viewing them in a kalidescope - it was wierd! That was when the optical industry first started addressing bifocal needs in contacts. Maybe the technology/product has changed since then and mono vision contacts would work for me today - I sure hate wearing glasses full time.

If it's been more than 3 or 4 years since you've tried bifocal contacts, you should definitely give it another try. The technology has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 4 years or so. Progressive lenses have also seen huge improvements even just in the last year, and an anti-reflective coating will make your night driving issues disappear. These are things your optician should be asking you about anyway.

[Throwin Lead]

I wore contacts from my teen years until I needed optical help for reading. The mono vison Rx for contacts didn't work well for me after several trys for some reason so I ended up with progressive lenses in glasses. I had issues driving at night with that set up. On coming headlights looked like I was viewing them in a kalidescope - it was wierd! That was when the optical industry first started addressing bifocal needs in contacts. Maybe the technology/product has changed since then and mono vision contacts would work for me today - I sure hate wearing glasses full time.

If it's been more than 3 or 4 years since you've tried bifocal contacts, you should definitely give it another try. The technology has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 4 years or so. Progressive lenses have also seen huge improvements even just in the last year, and an anti-reflective coating will make your night driving issues disappear. These are things your optician should be asking you about anyway.

Thanks for the advice.

It has been a long time - I think since about 1999-2000. I'm sure technology & product R&D has come a long way since then. I have an eye exam coming up in February. I will certainly look into trying again with contact lenses.

I am slightly nearsighted - just enough that I need corrective lenses to drive. My left eye(dominant) is -2.00 & my right eye is -.75 with a 1.25 bifocal. The reading correction was made in the dominant eye and the distance was made in the right eye.

Thinking about this the past day or so I did have a rough time time adjusting to the Rx outside of night vision when driving. IIRC the dominant eye wanted to be just that - dominant and would not let the right eye focus on distance as designed. When required to read small print I would start out OK then the print would just "wash out" becoming a blur. Due to the time it was going to take for the physical adjustment - weeks not days - I went with progressive glasses. At that time I was instructed to wear the new contact lense Rx for a few hours for a week then 1/2 day for a while gradually building up to full time use. Due to the the nature of my work I couldn't do that so I threw in the towel as I needed quick results. Using the standard contact Rx combined with reading glasses wasn't getting it as I would either forget to carry the reading glasses or msplace/lose them.

[Mike2002]

I am 43 and have been near sighted (can only see things close up) since about 8 yrs old. I have been wearing contact lens to correct this condition. Now as you can imagine I have trouble seeing things close up such as reading. My eye doctor has the mono vision going but I have the good far seeing lens in my right eye which means I can use my right eye to see things that are far away and my left eye is used for reading things up close.

This presents problems when I try to see the sights on my pistol that I just recently picked up for the for 1st time in about 3 yrs.

The reason for requesting the right eye for distance and the left eye for reading distance is that I shoot the shotgun more often that anything else and I have had trouble with my left eye trying to take over my domiant right eye specially for targets coming from the left whereas my left eye would lock on and cause alignment problems for my right eye.

So what does everyone suggest for someone who is in a 3 gun competition where you shoot rifle, shotgun, and pistol in the same event? Do you use right corrected lens for up close (clear sights) and for the left eye a far away type lens to see the target at a distance?

What if I shoot sporting clays? Same or different Rx as used for pistol?

I would appreciate your advise.

Thanks,

Mike

[BadShot]

Boo,

I've gone the route of safety glasses with an RX insert. Normally I wear a +1.75 cheater glasses for reading. My inserts are a +1.25. I see the sights crystal clear, but the targets are fuzzy. At 15-20 yards and beyond I can't see the lines or my bullet holes. On the plus side of this, it kind of makes you concentrate on the sights since you can't see much out there anyway. Overall, I'm very happy with this set up...

Skip

[Rob Boudrie]

I had a local optometrist come up with the following (cool guy - he threw in the "refraction only" exam for free with the glasses, since I had a recent MD eye health exam)

• Wolverine brand industrial photogray polycarbonate safety glasses. These look like regular glasses, but have detachane polycarbonate side shields. My Rx (-4.75 / -5.00 with +1.75 presbyopia) is too strong for wraparound without inserts to work nicely, and I don't want an insert system with 4 surfaces to get dirty/sweaty/etc.
  
• Right eye focal point about 20" in front of the sight. I still have enough focusing ability and depth of field to bring the front sight into sharp focus, but this doesn't blur distance as much as an exact front sight focus would.
  
• Left eye corrected to same distance, and -.25 added to help a bit with distance without creating a strong asymetry between the two eyes.
  

These work great, and the distance is good enough that I can put these on once I hit the range and not take them off until it's time to leave.

He didn't cover the part about changing the optical center - I'll ask him the next time I have a pair made.

[LPatterson]

have tried bifocals, single reading vision and mono vision and inverted bifocals work best for me. I called Decot and got 45mm inverted bifocals (not available on the website) with HiWyde frames so I can move the focal point between prescriptions. For in your face run & gun stages I move the nose pieces down to look thru the distance prescription. For accuracy stages I move the nose pieces up and use the iintermediate prescription (I normally wear trifocals).

As a diabetic the problem is deciding how often to change lenses as I get yearly eye exams and free glasses but the shooting glasses are not covered not are the computer glasses I am currently wearing.

For dry fire practice I wear a pair of single vision reading glasses that still focus at arms length.

Everybody that needs glasses sould try different methods to SEE what works for them.

[bbbean]

This is as good as it gets. You need a doctor that will spend the time, I suppose a optometrist could do the same. I was lucky, as a high school friend who was a doctor did mine for me. I discussed it before hand and took my handgun with me in a nondescript case and he did the following:

Actually measured the distance from my dominate eye to the front sight while I was holding it in a firing position.

He fitted the dominate eye lens to focus at that distance.

He fitted the non dominate eye lens to focus at infinity.

This is a clear focus on the front sight and the non dominate lens will allow you to look down range when you finish shooting or at anything at a distance and it will be in focus. This is as good a front sight focus as you can get without being a teen ager again. I use these glasses for shooting USPSA, IDPA, and Bianchi metallic sight. They take a little getting used to at first but it dose not take that long. I am a B class shooter in USPSA and hold a Distinguished Badge in Bianchi metallic sight. No way I could have done this without this prescription. I started shooting both in my mid 50's after I had been wearing prescription glasses for several years. I got this idea from a retired Georgia Patrol Captain when I started having problems with the front sight shooting PPC.

The only problem I had was that Henry was a Navy man. He could not understand why I wanted the front sight in focus and not the target. He finally gave up when I pointed out that I was the one paying.

I've considered this option, but was worried it would be too difficult to walk around, read score sheets, and generally function. Do you have to take your glasses off when you're not shooting?

[RiggerJJ]

Mike,

I would call Decot and talk to them. They work with all types of vision problems and have great shooting glasses as well (I think they are the best...). If you have a script that you can see with, they can help you decide how to put it in lenses that you can shoot 3 gun with.

jj

Edited December 27, 2008 by RiggerJJ

[Mike2002]

Thanks JJ!

Mike