Gun Free Zones

[firematt100]

Found this on FOXNEWS.COM.

The horrible tragedy at the Westroads Mall in Omaha, Neb. received a lot of attention Wednesday and Thursday. It should have. Eight people were killed, and five were wounded.

A Google news search using the phrase "Omaha Mall Shooting" finds an incredible 2,794 news stories worldwide for the last day. From India and Taiwan to Britain and Austria, there are probably few people in the world who haven’t heard about this tragedy.

But despite the massive news coverage, none of the media coverage, at least by 10 a.m. Thursday, mentioned this central fact: Yet another attack occurred in a gun-free zone.

Surely, with all the reporters who appear at these crime scenes and seemingly interview virtually everyone there, why didn’t one simply mention the signs that ban guns from the premises?

Nebraska allows people to carry permitted concealed handguns, but it allows property owners, such as the Westroads Mall, to post signs banning permit holders from legally carrying guns on their property.

The same was true for the attack at the Trolley Square Mall in Utah in February (a copy of the sign at the mall can be seen here). But again the media coverage ignored this fact. Possibly the ban there was even more noteworthy because the off-duty police officer who stopped the attack fortunately violated the ban by taking his gun in with him when he went shopping.

Yet even then, the officer "was at the opposite end and on a different floor of the convoluted Trolley Square complex when the shooting began. By the time he became aware of the shooting and managed to track down and confront Talovic [the killer], three minutes had elapsed."

There are plenty of cases every year where permit holders stop what would have been multiple victim shootings every year, but they rarely receive any news coverage. Take a case this year in Memphis, where WBIR-TV reported a gunman started "firing a pistol beside a busy city street" and was stopped by two permit holders before anyone was harmed.

When will part of the media coverage on these multiple-victim public shootings be whether guns were banned where the attack occurred? While the media has begun to cover whether teachers can have guns at school or the almost 8,000 college students across the country who protested gun-free zones on their campuses, the media haven’t started checking what are the rules where these attacks occur.

Surely, the news stories carry detailed information on the weapon used (in this case, a rifle) and the number of ammunition clips (apparently, two). But if these aspects of the story are deemed important for understanding what happened, why isn’t it also important that the attack occurred where guns were banned? Isn’t it important to know why all the victims were disarmed?

Few know that Dylan Klebold, one of the two Columbine killers, closely was following Colorado legislation that would have allowed citizens to carry a concealed handgun. Klebold strongly opposed the legislation and openly talked about it.

No wonder, as the bill being debated would have allowed permitted guns to be carried on school property. It is quite a coincidence that he attacked the Columbine High School the very day the legislature was scheduled to vote on the bill.

Despite the lack of news coverage, people are beginning to notice what research has shown for years: Multiple-victim public shootings keep occurring in places where guns already are banned. Forty states have broad right-to-carry laws, but even within these states it is the "gun-free zones," not other public places, where the attacks happen.

People know the list: Virginia Tech saw 32 murdered earlier this year; the Columbine High School shooting left 13 murdered in 1999; Luby's Cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, had 23 who were fatally shot by a deranged man in 1991; and a McDonald's in Southern California had 21 people shot dead by an unemployed security guard in 1984.

All these attacks — indeed, all attacks involving more than a small number of people being killed — happened in gun-free zones.

In recent years, similar attacks have occurred across the world, including in Australia, France, Germany and Britain. Do all these countries lack enough gun-control laws? Hardly. The reverse is more accurate.

The law-abiding, not criminals, are obeying the rules. Disarming the victims simply means that the killers have less to fear. As Wednesday's attack demonstrated yet again, police are important, but they almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

The longer it takes for someone to arrive on the scene with a gun, the more people who will be harmed by such an attack.

Most people understand that guns deter criminals. If a killer were stalking your family, would you feel safer putting a sign out front announcing, "This Home Is a Gun-Free Zone"? But that is what the Westroads Mall did.

John Lott is the author of Freedomnomics, upon which this piece draws, and a senior research scholar at the University of Maryland.

[zhunter]

Good read, I agree 100%

Thanks for posting

[SmittyFL]

Interesting, you never hear of these shooting sprees happening in a police station or a gun show.

Things that make you go hmmm.

[mwx40x40]

Interesting, you never hear of these shooting sprees happening in a police station or a gun show.

Things that make you go hmmm.

I was thinking this same thing as I was staying at the Host Hotel of the Fort Benning 3 Gun Match this past weekend. As the Holiday Inn patrons watched us in and out of the Hotel with gun bags, long gun cases and such, nobody felt threatened. My thoughts were , that this was the safest I have felt in a Hotel out of town in a long time.

[G-ManBart]

Very good read....I'd like to shake the writer's hand.

Yesterday when I was reading about the tragedy in Omaha, I kept thinking "I wish I'd been there to help him go out with a bang like he mentioned in his suicide note" and "this is just another case of how an armed citizen might have been able to save the day"....very frustrating

[cmzneb]

Of course not one of the local news media outlets will even touch this part of the story.

They just keep talking about the "SKS AK-47 Assualt Rifle" that was used.

One idiotic news anchor last night was interviewing a Von Maur employee who witnessed this event. She was crying, shaking, could hardly talk.... And he asks her, "can you make any sense of this"?

[Flatland Shooter]

I've always wondered if posting "no guns allowed" infers that the ownership/management of these gun free zones is warranting a safe environment, therefore they may be liable should their restrictions actually increase the chance of a violent crime occurring?

I know that should any of my family members not be allow legally carry on their premises and they subsequently fail to supply the protection that my family member could have supplied to themselves if allowed to be armed, I would find the most ruthless attorney on the face of the earth to nail the bas**** that in essence allowed my family to be harmed.

But then, thats just me.

Bill

[zhunter]

I've always wondered if posting "no guns allowed" infers that the ownership/management of these gun free zones is warranting a safe environment, therefore they may be liable should their restrictions actually increase the chance of a violent crime occurring?

I know that should any of my family members not be allow legally carry on their premises and they subsequently fail to supply the protection that my family member could have supplied to themselves if allowed to be armed, I would find the most ruthless attorney on the face of the earth to nail the bas**** that in essence allowed my family to be harmed.

But then, thats just me.

Bill

+1

[stingerjg]

This whole situation just sucks. The Westroads Mall is about 1.5 miles from my home and i drive past it every day.

I have a CCW permit, but i WILL NOT shop in stores that will not allow me to carry my gun.

The signs on the door should read something like this:

[stingerjg]

They just keep talking about the "SKS AK-47 Assualt Rifle" that was used.

That and the doctors were saying that the wounds that were treated were consistant of an Assault Rifle. What the heck does that mean?

[SiG Lady]

stinger's sign sez it all.

[hitman]

And as usual the Brady bunch is at it again and begging for money too boot.

[Will Abrahams]

They just keep talking about the "SKS AK-47 Assualt Rifle" that was used.

That and the doctors were saying that the wounds that were treated were consistant of an Assault Rifle. What the heck does that mean?

you tend to see whats called the "blast effect" in tissue surrounding rifle rounds injuries...this is much less pronounced in handguns wound channels.

speaking of weapon free zones....i was talking with some of the security guards at a few of the local hospitals i work at. the other day i asked why they dont carry guns? the response was "we are not allowed to" so i asked what the game plan would be if someone came in the hospital and started shooting? every response was the same..."call the police and wait!" i think justins sticker said it best "remember, when seconds count the police are just minutes away"

[Matt Cheely]

They just keep talking about the "SKS AK-47 Assualt Rifle" that was used.

That and the doctors were saying that the wounds that were treated were consistant of an Assault Rifle. What the heck does that mean?

you tend to see whats called the "blast effect" in tissue surrounding rifle rounds injuries...this is much less pronounced in handguns wound channels.

I think the point is what makes that different from a 50 year old Remington 700, or a High Capacity Uber Black Lazers and everything assault rifle...

[Will Abrahams]

They just keep talking about the "SKS AK-47 Assualt Rifle" that was used.

That and the doctors were saying that the wounds that were treated were consistant of an Assault Rifle. What the heck does that mean?

you tend to see whats called the "blast effect" in tissue surrounding rifle rounds injuries...this is much less pronounced in handguns wound channels.

I think the point is what makes that different from a 50 year old Remington 700, or a High Capacity Uber Black Lazers and everything assault rifle...

ahhh, i see what you mean. yeah they should have just said rifle...

[JFD]

Our local TV station had a story about the security (or total lack thereof) at our malls.

Never did they mention that the malls don't allow guns to be carried by CCW permit holders.

If the shooter was never mentioned by name, with no in-depth study of their pathetic lives, I think these shootings would be reduced. If we could carry guns everywhere, then these shootings would be eliminated for the most part.

[STInky]

If the shooter was never mentioned by name, with no in-depth study of their pathetic lives, I think these shootings would be reduced. If we could carry guns everywhere, then these shootings would be eliminated for the most part.

I agree. Somewhere, some depressed son-of-a-bitch that just lost his job, his girl friend, and his TV remote will see all this publicity and say...."I can be famous too !!!".

[mjbine]

Thanks for posting it. Great Read.

[halvey]

Interesting read. In Minnesota, landlords cannot ban guns. So, each leased store has to be posted in order to ban guns. Malls can't ban permit holders from carrying there. Now, some malls up here do have signs, but they are never posted properly. The mall I frequent has on sign on each entrance on the side wall as you come in. You really have to look for it. Funny thing is there's a Dicks Sporting Goods store in the mall now and they sell guns None of the anchor stores have the signs.

The Mall of America had the signs prominently posted when our law was passed, but slowly but surely they have taken them down or put them in spots less noticiable. Now Bass Pro is coming to that mall, so I kind of wonder how they'll ban guns there.

By the way, the signs here are basically meaningless. If you get caught with a gun, the owner has to tell you to leave, and if you don't, then you get a $25 trespassing ticket.

[Rob Boudrie]

I agree. Somewhere, some depressed son-of-a-bitch that just lost his job, his girl friend, and his TV remote will see all this publicity and say...."I can be famous too !!!".

There is plenty of precedent for the media agreeing not to publish what it considers harmful information.

The major media does not naming sexual assault victims and minors involved in crimes - rather than being seen as "getting the scoop on the competition", including such details is seen as irresponsible and won't gain the newspaper any points (though I am not in total agreement on the part about not naming minors).

When I lived in Rochester, NY about 20 years ago, the major newspaper agreed to not mention the race of a criminal unless it was part of a sufficiently detailed description as to be of assistance to the police in finding the suspect. This happened because of community pressure from groups that felt that naming the race could be politically incorrect and offend someone.

[trodrig]

Great read and I love the sign!

I wonder if/when a shooting comes to pass and a CHL holder takes the guy out before he kills many people will it get the kind of media attention that the criminals get when they are successful at shooting until they take their own lives. I suspect they wouldn't which is sad. Of course, I'd hope that this was the last such event that ever happens period and we never have to find out...

Trodrig

[JThompson]

Our local TV station had a story about the security (or total lack thereof) at our malls.

Never did they mention that the malls don't allow guns to be carried by CCW permit holders.

If the shooter was never mentioned by name, with no in-depth study of their pathetic lives, I think these shootings would be reduced. If we could carry guns everywhere, then these shootings would be eliminated for the most part.

Agreed. They are giving them what they desire. I would deny them that and use abstract term such as, "Pathetic Loser." No pictures!

[Larry White]

The day a permit holder takes out a nut case that shot several people it will be reported as several bystanders injured in gun fight.-----------------Larry

[el pres]

Excellent read!! I feel like I'm leaving feedback A+++++++++++++

I live in Salt Lake where the Trolley Square shootings took place.

Its a terrible part of society that tragic events like this even occure.

These people are failed cowards who are going to take their sociatol

failure out on the weak (gun free zones), schools, women shopping etc..

Everyone needs to ck there state laws but from what I'm getting

from my local CCW instructors in the area, in our state anyway, a

business can display any anti weapons sign they want but that does

not override state law which validates my permit unless they register

that request with the crimal investigation dept. or the permit issueing

dept. of the state...

Therefore, law abiding citizens who turn around at the door and go back

to the car may not need to jerpordize their safety like that...

[Pat Miles]

Just a little off topic but another case of how desperate the news media is to sensationalize killings with guns. About 15 years ago there was an incident west of Albuquerque at a truck stop that spilled over onto an Indian reservation (the news reported that the incident happened on an Indian reservation so I'll use the same term). One of the inhabitants of said reservation went on a killing spree and started by killing a truck stop employee. He then went to the adjascent reservation and killed a couple of his relatives. The State Police captured him shortly thereafter. Of course it was reported on by all the local TV stations, but one had their live report stating that the gunman had used a "high power" 22 rifle! All the while an onscreen picture of an AK-47 complete with banana clip was shown next to the reporter!

We had another situation here in which a gentleman who did volunteer work for the local PD was in a Wallyworld. Hearing a woman screaming he found a man stabbing his ex-wife. He was a CCW permittee and fortunately had his firearm. He yelled for the man to stop (he had stabbed the woman twice already). Needless to say the man did not stop his attack so the gentleman stopped him. Forever! Here is where it gets interesting. The local news reported that another Wallyworld store 30 miles away was posted for no carry in that store. This store was not. They also pointed out that the store was within 100 yards of a school. Their point being that the CCW was breaking the law and that WW should press charges against the CCW, nevermind that he had saved the life of a WW employee. That was 3-4 years ago and no charges have ever come out of this incident. WW was smart not to press the issue. If they had or they would be screaming that their employees lives aren't worth a plug nickle to the WW corp.