KentG Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 I think these are the shit. Time will tell though. After Mike gets these parts out to the public lets see if more show up at matches. Could this spell trouble for "tubers"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockster96 Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 While it would be the heat for open, I don't think they are legal for Tactical or Limited. I'm seriously thinking about buying one of these babies just for the sheer fun factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 nah-can load 4 & 6 round tec loaders quicker than that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted October 24, 2007 Author Share Posted October 24, 2007 nah-can load 4 & 6 round tec loaders quicker than that... I dont think he was trying for maximum speed and has not obviously pracitced. They are still cool. I got mine converted and just started using it for open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filishooter Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 How about if the Saiga starts with 20 in the gun? http://www.mdarms.com/scripts/prodview.asp?idProduct=1714 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 While it would be the heat for open, I don't think they are legal for Tactical or Limited.I'm seriously thinking about buying one of these babies just for the sheer fun factor. Open only. I had Tromix build one earlier this year. It is nothing but FUN!!!! I need a lot of practice to beat the tube guys who have been gettin' it for a couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 3 Gun Divisions need to be constantly updated to allow for current technology, or we'll be as antiquated as Cowboy action eventually. Mag fed production guns exist with iron sights...allow them in Tactical with 9 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted October 24, 2007 Share Posted October 24, 2007 (edited) I was going to post that video here after the drum showed up at my last match I think a few tubefeeders were converted! With due respect to Mr. Outerlimits, I think I can beat that with my rock and lock technique that said with good technique and a Saiga so equipped not many poeple are going to be able to keep up with it, especially on the move. Let me be totally honest I shoot too slow, what keeps me competitive in our local shotgun matches is the fact that I have a pretty quick reload without that I would be in trouble. I keep the mags ready to grab and incert I plan to talk with Mike tomorrow and discuss buying a set up like he has for both my Saiga and my 16 year old son Saiga. Here is Eric with his Saiga note the clear magazine Edited October 25, 2007 by Topmaul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Sinistral..................Let it go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Antiquated is , as Antiquated does. Turnbolts with optic sights are antiquated compared to Auto shotguns, Iron sights are antiquated compared to optics, cased ammo is antiquated compared to caseless ammo, the list can go for days. Just let it go, that horse is dead. Besides you have a division you can shoot the gun in. this post should not be taken as argumentative, my comments are meant as light hearted and in jest. Trapr Edited October 25, 2007 by bigbrowndog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 ANytime someone thinks that the tube feeders are dead......some one, some nasty MD is gonna throw a bird shot/slug stage in a match.....and that will end all discussion. With 8 round loader tubes and being able to start a stage with 15 rounds (ok....even 20).......the speed of a mag change or tube feed is not going to make for much difference anymore. Seems like for most stages after 21 rounds......someone is gonna have to do atleast one reload, no matter what shotgun you have. And when it boils down to that certain nasty MD and his shot/slug stage........I'll stick with the tube feeders. JMHO......YMMV Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The Saiga is gonna lay to waste tubers. That guy in the video sucks and yet he is probably faster than 90% of the Open shooters that use tubes. The Saiga dominates. ... too bad I can't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 I was going to post that video here after the drum showed up at my last match I think a few tubefeeders were converted! With due respect to Mr. Outerlimits, I think I can beat that with my rock and lock technique that said with good technique and a Saiga so equipped not many poeple are going to be able to keep up with it, especially on the move. Let me be totally honest I shoot too slow, what keeps me competitive in our local shotgun matches is the fact that I have a pretty quick reload without that I would be in trouble. I keep the mags ready to grab and incert I plan to talk with Mike tomorrow and discuss buying a set up like he has for both my Saiga and my 16 year old son Saiga. Here is Eric with his Saiga note the clear magazine The magwell isnt out yet,, soon but not yet. His drum is due out hopefully by Xmas and Im on the back order list for 2. It wont be me the way I shoot but some of the faster guys are going to figure it out and start cleaning house. Downside is the guns themselves are hard to come by since they only import small lots. I think there are a few out from the shipment a month or so ago but Im not sure. I have my 2 and Im good for now. You can go to the Saiga forums if you want more info. http://www.saiga-12.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted October 25, 2007 Author Share Posted October 25, 2007 ANytime someone thinks that the tube feeders are dead......some one, some nasty MD is gonna throw a bird shot/slug stage in a match.....and that will end all discussion. With 8 round loader tubes and being able to start a stage with 15 rounds (ok....even 20).......the speed of a mag change or tube feed is not going to make for much difference anymore. Seems like for most stages after 21 rounds......someone is gonna have to do atleast one reload, no matter what shotgun you have. And when it boils down to that certain nasty MD and his shot/slug stage........I'll stick with the tube feeders. JMHO......YMMV Tim Thats not only shitty but basicly unsportsman like in my book. Designing a stage just to screw someone using equipment you dont like or use is pretty low. And I have read somewhere that something along those lines have already happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 MD's "tuning" stages to hurt mag fed shotguns is nothing new. The second year I shot a certain top (although ancient ) GM's state championship match with a modern gun, one stage featured a "all slugs loose in a saddlebag at the end of the bay" stage Another stage at another "second year" match had a "shoot at least one slug and at least one clay from each (of four) shooting positions" stage...the second year... Easy to beat; just cross-load magazines and remember what is in the chamber Straight in magazines (that drop free) would be the heat for Saigas. I might even convert from my boat anchor gun at that point A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Is the Saiga the only mag feed shotgun? I heard of another one but can't think of it or remember to do a search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Just to throw more fuel on the fire.. If Saigas are so great, then why are Mike Voigt, Jerry Miculek, Taran Butler, Bennie Cooley, etc.. still using tube fed guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Butler and Cooley shoot Tactical and Limited. Saiga isn't legal (thank you Lord) in either of these division. And it isn't legal in Kalifornia. Miculek/Voigt... there's probably a sponsorship thing there. ...and the Saiga (with mods) is fairly new. Give it more time. Tube guns in Open will be obsolete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Besides you have a division you can shoot the gun in.this post should not be taken as argumentative, my comments are meant as light hearted and in jest. Trapr I shoot open most of the time just so I can use whatever I want since Trooper isn't everywhere yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topmaul Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 The Saiga is a fairly new weapon on the scene it might be that the MDs are simply trying te excersize shotgun skills, I think we should give them the benifet of the doubt and spank them anyway. Normally there are a few Saiga Unfrendly stages, just do you best on those, and leave them behind in the Saiga Friendly stages! On the other hand if there is money on the line and the Stages are overly Saiga Unfriendly that is BS and some one should cry fowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Is the Saiga the only mag feed shotgun? I heard of another one but can't think of it or remember to do a search. Franchi SPAS 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Actually no......I believe it is called "ammo management".....and has been done LONG before the siaga's had come on the scene. You can expect it to be around for a long time AND is something to think about before you go out and buy your mag fed shotgun. As the shotgun has been all about reloading in the 3g game......I do NOT see it as unsportsman like at all. As a matter of fact, I looked very hard at getting a mag fed shotgun.......but decided I wanted a more versatile shotgun to shoot this game. And, no....that is not a jab....its just the facts. All the shotguns have a weakness.....the weakness of tube loaders can be the number of rounds and how good you are at sticking tubes in the gun (I personally am slow).....the weakness of the mag fed is the, well, the mag. I do like the fact of the hold open feature that is coming out and a true drop free and the straight in mag feed......now if someone could do a mag over ride.....ya just might have something. MMMMMM something to think about??? Tim Edited October 25, 2007 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 I too have looked VERY CLOSLY at the mag feeds, and still don't see a versatile one. The shotgun is a versatile firearm; you can shoot flying targets with shot, from tiny BBs to much larger. You can shoot a single projectile that is accurate out past 100 yards. You can shoot 9-15 man-stopping BBs the size of a 9mm projectile in ONE shot... the list goes on. In our 3gun matches we have seen targets that test the shooters ability to use this versatile firearm. The mag feeds just can't do it...yet! to say that a select slug stage is unsportsman-like, well, you are just plain WRONG! A select slug stage with flying birds and paper targets that require 00 buck is very common, and NOT designed to screw with the mag feeds. It was designed to test the shooters ammo management abilities ALONG with reloading skills!!! It just shows that the mag feeds are just not up to par because you can't easily shove in a single round (or 2 or 3) to engage a specific target with. I don't doubt that someday there will be a "perfect" removable mag fed shotgun, it just ain't been invented yet! jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SinistralRifleman Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 (edited) Switching between slugs, shot, and buck at Ironman was a non-issue for me. The Saiga was a huge speed advantage there, even with selecting loads regularly. The Saiga loses it's advantage depending the round count of the stage and mag capacity. The 12 round stages at SMM3G this past year made it no advantage whatsoever when using 10 round magazines. Re: select load stages, a skilled shooter can easily load his drum or mag according to the course layout and his shooting plan. It works great if you don't miss. Alex Wakal did this with his USAS-12 a the Cav 3 Gun in 2005 on a select load stage, and had the fastest time. Give me a stage with shot, slug, buck, shot, slug, buck, I would just load my mag that way and if I miss...oh well, keep moving. Edited October 25, 2007 by SinistralRifleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danny Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Sounds as if there is a need for a muti-tube shotgun, just have to rotate the fresh one into place and continue rocking and rolling. Designers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted October 25, 2007 Share Posted October 25, 2007 Sounds as if there is a need for a muti-tube shotgun, just have to rotate the fresh one into place and continue rocking and rolling. Designers! ya never know what may be in the works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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