Minor or Major? Pros & Cons - Limited Minor

[eerw]

I stand corrected..

World Shoot 2 and 3

76 Jan Foss with a SIG210

77 Dave Westerhout with a BHP

[ebg3]

I shoot 2 matches a month that are not USPSA matches so they don't have a pf limit. We like to down load our 40's to a 150pf and use a lighter spring. It is very pleasant to shoot my STI with minor loads and it seems easier to to shoot better points. I am not any faster with the minor loads just more accurate. It seems to make for a smoother transition from open and there is potential to improve your accuracy to help you shoot better points when shooting major. Just make sure you declare minor at your local matches!

[SA Friday]

The weight difference is almost nothing. The difference between 24 rounds of 147gr 9mm vs 20 rounds of 180gr 40 cal is less than 100gr's. So even throwing in variation for different bullets and round counts, the weight issue is still nothing an average person could feel the difference from while shooting.

The extra rounds might make a difference in one stage out of 10, but the loss of overall points pretty much pushes that into the negative.

Limited minor is cheap fun, but not competative.

[scirocco38s]

The weight difference is almost nothing. The difference between 24 rounds of 147gr 9mm vs 20 rounds of 180gr 40 cal is less than 100gr's. So even throwing in variation for different bullets and round counts, the weight issue is still nothing an average person could feel the difference from while shooting.

The extra rounds might make a difference in one stage out of 10, but the loss of overall points pretty much pushes that into the negative.

Limited minor is cheap fun, but not competative.

I have seen at local matches, shooters shoot minor in limited and still fair pretty far up the results. When that happens it is a kind of wake up call to alot of shooters when they realize that they lost by a large margin and the shooter was scorred minor.

[DogmaDog]

I think the coolness factor falls on the side of the guy shooting minor.

But shooting major isn't any slower, and you get an extra point for a C or D hit.

Shooting minor could be cheaper, and you could get more rounds in a mag.

Shooting minor might be worthwhile training to encourage a focus on accuracy. It might not hurt you to do it, and you might save some money or be able to practice more...I think the benefit of shooting minor is what it gets you outside of shooting matches.

DD

[pjb45]

Taran shot A2 in minor. He was second by a small difference. Dave shot the Central Coast SS/Prod Championship a few years ago. Two extra rounds per mag and minor proved to be significant margin over Taran in his major SS.

The extra rounds could pay off on some courses, expecially if your reloads suck or if you need extra rounds.

The reduced recoil could help splits and transitions.

The extra focus on accuracy to make up for the reduced scoring my be beneficial in the long run.

Why not try it for a few matches. Not one or two but more.

[Mick]

I stand corrected..

World Shoot 2 and 3

76 Jan Foss with a SIG210

77 Dave Westerhout with a BHP

Those matches were a bit different than they are today. They had to do some physical stuff we no longer do. In those days, an athletic fella with a minor gun (high cap too) could make up some time and win.....

Edited July 1, 2008 by Mick

[ChuckS]

Taran shot A2 in minor.

You may want to ask him if he though it was a good idea. Due to his minorness, he gave up 67 raw points. Without doing the math I am not sure if he would of beat Henning or not, but it would of been close.

Later,

Chuck

[racerba]

At least the misses are the same for minor as it is for major!

[Nik Habicht]

Comparing Major/Minor in SS is a special animal, as you actually get a useful increase in capacity --- from 8 - 10 for shooting minor.....

In limited, going from 20ish to 23-25 isn't as much of an advantage; there's typically at least one place to reload on even a 32 round stage.....

Maybe it would buy you something on a 20-22 round stage, but not if you're shooting conservatively to avoid the reload....

That said --- I shot a 9mm in Limited for years, even at major matches and had a good time doing it......

[al503]

That said --- I shot a 9mm in Limited for years, even at major matches and had a good time doing it......

I agree with Nik. Although I shoot my open gun most of the time (because my eyes are going downhill,) out of all of my guns, I like shooting my limited 9mm the most. It's also nice beating many of your buds (doesn't happen all the time) who are shooting major.

I have a 6" limited gun being built right now and I'm undecided on getting it in either 9mm or .40.

[Flexmoney]

Minor sucks.

[eerw]

minor can be fun, it is certainly challenging and on the local level it is fun to see how well you can do against those shooting major.

beyond any of that, in the game as it is today, at any major match, if you are not shooting at the top of your game. you handicap yourself in the points you may give up.

it is fun, I have one of my CZ's setup for limited minor, mags at 23+1. For me, this is an exercise for the challenge.

[boo radley]

The math is boggling.

Taking the 'El Pres' example:

Both a Lim. and Lim/Minor shoot it in 8 seconds clean, for a 7.5 hf. The Lim. shooter speeds up by a full second, and hits 6 A's and 6 C's to improve his hf to 7.7. The Lim/Minor shooter does the same, and goes completely in the opposite direction, with a 6.85 hf!

That's like shooting a stage in which, if you're limited, you get a target with the A/C zone, but if minor, you have only the A zone....

[Nik Habicht]

The math certainly made more sense when my reloads were running 3+ seconds, and I was shooting so slowly as to get only one or two Cs on a stage......

Once you start moving better, develop a faster reload, make more aggressive plans, cut down on positions --- which will often have you shooting on the move or at partials, I gotta agree with Flex from the scoring perspective minor sucks.

Then again --- esp. now that I'm in school, I use matches to relax --- I don't care how I perform, or at least not very much.....

[Shay1911]

TGO usually gets 95% of available points during major matches, that's how he wins against the younger faster guys.

If you have steel, minor and major count the same.

If a stage is all paper targets, then the calculation is simple:

16 targets, 32 rounds, 160 points available, 95% is 152 points, 8 points down.

Assuming one doesnt shoot Deltas or Mikes, that is 8 Charlies for major and 4 Charlies for minor.

Is it that much easier to shoot 8 Charlies major than 4 Charlies minor? Or is it easier to be more accurate with minor?

If you shoot with same accuracy, minor and major, can the time that you gain shooting minor make up for 4 extra charlies?

Edited July 1, 2008 by Shay1911

[dubletap]

TGO usually gets 95% of available points during major matches, that's how he wins against the younger faster guys.

If you have steel, minor and major count the same.

If a stage is all paper targets, then the calculation is simple:

16 targets, 32 rounds, 160 points available, 95% is 152 points, 8 points down.

Assuming one doesnt shoot Deltas or Mikes, that is 8 Charlies for major and 4 Charlies for minor.

Is it that much easier to shoot 8 Charlies major than 4 Charlies minor? Or is it easier to be more accurate with minor?

If you shoot with same accuracy, minor and major, can the time that you gain shooting minor make up for 4 extra charlies?

If you're shooting with the same accuracy then you've only got 4 C's. If you've got 8 C's in Major then you're likely shooting quicker with less accuracy. If you're holding your gun properly the splits aren't that much different. I understand the math but the premise is flawed. Show me the Hit Factors that's what counts. In SS minor will gain extra rounds which can save a standing reload if the shooter needs an extra shot in some target array scenarios, the extra round can result in a big time advantage. In the case of Taran, he didn't intend to shoot minor! But he's a great shooter and has the mental game down to be able to overcome that adversity.

[harmonii]

Short answer based on a mathematical analysis performed by a mathematician friend of mine.

The higher up in the HF and ranking you are, the more difference one point makes, so major is a must.

However, at mid-levels, a Mike is worth up to 10 seconds of time, so a couple points here and there... no biggie.

[ChuckS]

Taran shot A2 in minor.

You may want to ask him if he though it was a good idea. Due to his minorness, he gave up 67 raw points. Without doing the math I am not sure if he would of beat Henning or not, but it would of been close.

Later,

Chuck

Like the guy that said "I gots to know" in Dirty Harry, I had to do the math. Taran would of won the 2007 A2 in limited by 3.21% A fine example supporting what harmonii just posted.

[glockstan]

Just wondering how do they score minor and major and what advantaged of shooting major over the minor, thanks for your help.

I know most limited shooting major and look like all productions shooting minor, jsut want to know the differences, thanks

[JakeMartens]

You are going to flamed for not doing a search......but really who cares, everyone will hop on here anyway and give you their 2 cents.

Production Division is scored all minor, no matter what bullet (within the rules) you are shooting as long as it is 125 power factor or higher.

Scoring

Major Zone Minor

5 A 5

4 C 3

2 D 1

Edited September 15, 2008 by fortyfiveshooter

[glockstan]

You are going to flamed for not doing a search......but really who cares, everyone will hop on here anyway and give you their 2 cents.

Production Division is scored all minor, no matter what bullet (within the rules) you are shooting as long as it is 125 power factor or higher.

Scoring

Major Zone Minor

5 A 5

4 C 3

2 D 1

THANK YOU

[dajarrel]

If you shoot all A's, it doesn't matter if you shoot major or minor. BUT, you pay a high price for C's and D's if you decide to shoot minor in anything but production.

fwiw

dj

[steel1212]

I think Burkett shot minor one year in open at the nationals....he finished 9th or lower if I'm not mistaken. A really good shooter shooting minor could beat a lower class shooter shooting major most of the time. Both shooters in the same class usually the major PF is going to win that battle everytime. Shooting Major you can settle for some charlies, shooting minor in limited/L10/SS/Open it just hurts to much to shoot anything but Alphas.

The only advantage I've seen of shooting minor is the 3 gun rifle as nobody has made a comp for a 308 to make it feel like a .223, or made .30 cal bullets as cheap either lol.

[Jman]

Just wondering how do they score minor and major and what advantaged of shooting major over the minor, thanks for your help.

I know most limited shooting major and look like all productions shooting minor, jsut want to know the differences, thanks

glockstan,

The best description of USPSA scoring I've read are in Robin Taylors "The Glock in Competition". You can buy a copy here in Brian's store. In basically two pages Robin describes the elements of speed and Hit Factor in both major and minor. He makes it completely understandable.

Jim