Checkering and beveled magwells

[eerw]

Reading through some of the 2008 Draft rules..in Production in allowed modifications it says..

"Grips-Checkered or Stipled. Internal beveling, addition of grip tape or grip sleeve."

so my understanding is that it would be allowable to checker the frontstrap and backstrap and bevel the magwells??

on CZs or EAA, retexture Glocks?? or the sharkskin treatment on the M&Ps??

thanks for any insight.

[splashdown]

That's what it sounds like to me. I would wait until I had a hard copy of the new rule book in my hands before doing any permanent modifications.

[Loves2Shoot]

What about the "Scott" type grip with the epoxy and aluminum oxide grit?

[vluc]

I wonder if undercutting the trigger guard can fall into that area?

[Sandormen]

I wonder if undercutting the trigger guard can fall into that area?

Not yet, it seems.

And I have to admit, that if these admittance's goes through, it might very well hollow out the principal behind PD.

It wouldn't be hard to discriminate the guns from proper SD-guns, but couldn't it be easier to lure a SD gun into the PD?

Just avoid using 3rd party barrel, and mag-extentions. The internals of the gun are after all only visible to a scrutinizing control.

Do I understand it as such, that all 1st, 2nd and 3rd places would undergo a weapon control before/after the match?

If the gun-control are being done, then changes to grips could be allowed. Imo.

I am not to eager about allowing the beveling of the magwell, though.

Being the owner of a CZ 85B, I definitely see an advantage of doing so on the CZ 75/85-models. I had to, after putting an extended magwell onto it. To make it flush with the gun, I had to dremel the inners of the gun.

My trigger-pull, is definitely not longer as from factory. I think it would be very hard though, for anyone to be able to tell if I have used my magic on it, or if I had a lucky buy!

Since Denmark got some screwed gun-rules, the original barrel is no longer. Instead the gun has to be sold with an extended barrel. (minimum length of gun = 210mm)

Does this means that the danish CZ75, is not allowed in PD? (I actually don't know this, I am curious!)

[Sandormen]

Since Denmark got some screwed gun-rules, the original barrel is no longer. Instead the gun has to be sold with an extended barrel. (minimum length of gun = 210mm)

Does this means that the danish CZ75, is not allowed in PD? (I actually don't know this, I am curious!)

Oh, I found my own answer... ...the CZ actually delivers the gun with a 6" barrel, that makes it legal to use, by having it shortened to the specific danish gun-law!

Edited August 25, 2007 by Sandormen

[JTew]

Does anyone know if the "Sevigny Speedway Magwell conversion" would be legal for production under the new rules? It appears internal on the face of it even though you can see it with the magazine removed.

http://www.southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm

[GeorgeInNePa]

Does anyone know if the "Sevigny Speedway Magwell conversion" would be legal for production under the new rules? It appears internal on the face of it even though you can see it with the magazine removed.

http://www.southpawcustom.com/speedway.htm

Since I have heard that a simple plastic plug will still be illegal, I imagine this would be too. Check with John Amidon for the final word.

[driver8M3]

Since I have heard that a simple plastic plug will still be illegal, I imagine this would be too.

not only that, but the new rules list a few legal mods...then say anything not listed is not allowed. they also list a few things that are specifically prohibited...and adding a plug is indeed one of them. i'm not exactly sure what is meant by "internal beveling" in the new rules.

the draft 2008 rules can be found here:

http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/online_att...andgunRules.pdf

here is the appropriate section:

21 Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)

Internal throating and polishing to improve accuracy, reliability and function

Sights- trimmed, adjusted, replaced, colored, or fiber-optic.

Slide- refinishing. Milling of slide – only as required to insert sights.

After-market slides and barrels – provided they are the same length, contour, and caliber as original factory standard.

Grips- Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. (see Appendix E4)

Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods).

22 Specifically prohibited modifications and features

Prototype and Single-Action-Only handguns.

Disabling of any external safety or externally operated safety.

External modifications or features such as weights or devices to control or reduce recoil (such as, but not limited to, thumb rests or components which could be used as such).

Grips- Any addition or removal of material which changes the factory profile or adds function such as beavertail or thumb rest.

External plugs (such as Seattle Slug).

No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine.

Edited September 21, 2007 by driver8M3

[Mapzter]

And I have to admit, that if these admittance's goes through, it might very well hollow out the principal behind PD.

You should be aware that this thread concerns the USPSA rulebook, i.e. it has no relevance whatsoever for people shooting under the IPSC rules. There's already quite a bit of difference between what's allowed in USPSA PD vs. IPSC PD.

Edited September 21, 2007 by Mapzter

[Ara]

Ok, still clear as mud.

Based on that, you MAY be able to use a plastic plug that fits flush with the bottom. All it does is "internal beveling" which is allowed. External plugs and Seatle Slugs as mentioned refer to the type that protrude beyond the frame. It seems that "no magwell attachments or external flaring" means what it says, you can't drop in a mag well but you can bevel the inside, which makes sense. If a guy has an old Berretta, which came un-beveled, he should be allowed to take a file to it. My thought then is a flush fitting plug should be ok. This is something they will have to rule on if the wording stays the same.

[mike cyrwus]

Looks to me that the speedway will be perfectly legal, as its internal and not an "external" feature.

[Nik Habicht]

Since I have heard that a simple plastic plug will still be illegal, I imagine this would be too.

not only that, but the new rules list a few legal mods...then say anything not listed is not allowed. they also list a few things that are specifically prohibited...and adding a plug is indeed one of them. i'm not exactly sure what is meant by "internal beveling" in the new rules.

the draft 2008 rules can be found here:

http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/online_att...andgunRules.pdf

here is the appropriate section:

21 Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)

Grips- Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. (see Appendix E4)

Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods).

22 Specifically prohibited modifications and features

No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine.

Looks to me that the speedway will be perfectly legal, as its internal and not an "external" feature.

I'd ask Amidon --- and I predict he'll tell you your interpretation is wrong. On the list of authorized modifications, there's one listed under GRIPS -- Not magwells.

The line under prohibited modifications, dealing with magwell attachments and external flaring was most likely written to provide guidance to manufacturers.....

Bottom line: Seek clarification before turning a Production gun into a Limited gun, because I can guarantee the Range Masters will.....

[GeorgeInNePa]

Since I have heard that a simple plastic plug will still be illegal, I imagine this would be too.

not only that, but the new rules list a few legal mods...then say anything not listed is not allowed. they also list a few things that are specifically prohibited...and adding a plug is indeed one of them. i'm not exactly sure what is meant by "internal beveling" in the new rules.

the draft 2008 rules can be found here:

http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/online_att...andgunRules.pdf

here is the appropriate section:

21 Authorized modifications (Strictly limited to these items and their stated guidelines)

Grips- Internal beveling. Checkering, stippling, and addition of grip tape or grip sleeves. (see Appendix E4)

Exchange of minor components (springs, safeties, slide stops, guide rods).

22 Specifically prohibited modifications and features

No magwell attachments or external flaring of the magwell. The lateral width of the well may not be more than 1/4" wider than the lateral width of the magazine.

Looks to me that the speedway will be perfectly legal, as its internal and not an "external" feature.

I'd ask Amidon --- and I predict he'll tell you your interpretation is wrong. On the list of authorized modifications, there's one listed under GRIPS -- Not magwells.

The line under prohibited modifications, dealing with magwell attachments and external flaring was most likely written to provide guidance to manufacturers.....

Bottom line: Seek clarification before turning a Production gun into a Limited gun, because I can guarantee the Range Masters will.....

Nik, the silly thing is, you can buy an aftermarket slide and you can stipple a Glock frame, but you can buy and use a $5 flush fitting plastic plug.

[Flexmoney]

I guess we are on that slippery slope we always hear about...

[sfinney]

I guess we are on that slippery slope we always hear about...

If by slippery you mean greased in pig fat, and slope as in vertical cliff......

[EricW]

Without trying to start a debate, are these rules a done deal, or are they merely a wish list?

I'm a little surprised that we've moved closer to IPSC with a minimum trigger pull rule, then allowed a free for all on the rest of the pistol in PD. I'm OK with picking one direction then going there, but this is odd to say the least.

[kmca]

Without trying to start a debate, are these rules a done deal, or are they merely a wish list?

I'm a little surprised that we've moved closer to IPSC with a minimum trigger pull rule, then allowed a free for all on the rest of the pistol in PD. I'm OK with picking one direction then going there, but this is odd to say the least.

Sorry this is off the topic but I thought USPSA got rid of the minimum trigger pull in production.

[EricW]

Oops...I thought the trigger pull was done deal. And nope, it ain't in the 2K8 rule book. Whew...

[mike cyrwus]

Grips- Internal beveling

what could this possibly mean other than an allowance to shape the inside of the grip(magwell area)?

[vluc]

I think this is a perfect question to take to the USPSA Forum.

ETA - topic edited and posted over at USPSA Forum for, hopefully, an official answer.

Edited September 22, 2007 by vluc

[ima45dv8]

Excellent idea, Vince!

[Nik Habicht]

Grips- Internal beveling

what could this possibly mean other than an allowance to shape the inside of the grip(magwell area)?

Beats me --- unless it involves grip panels. Not every gun in PD is built on a molded polymer frame. My only point is --- given that a modification to the magwell appears nowhere on the list of allowed modifications, and given that there's a line under prohibited modifications that specifically mentions magwells, I'd be checking with Amidon before sending a gun off to anyone, or picking up a dremel....

That's my $ .02....

[Singlestack Wonder]

The Production rules are very illogical indeed. Yes, you can add a tungsten guide for added recoil control (no DA manufacturer in the world offers a tungsten guide rod), but yet a plastic plug for a hole in the grip is illegal??? It appears production division is becoming a quasi-limted division. Is the plug illegal because it's looked at as a mag guide of some sort?

Edited September 22, 2007 by Singlestack Wonder

[Nik Habicht]

The Production rules are very illogical indeed. Yes, you can add a tungsten guide for added recoil control (no DA manufacturer in the world offers a tungsten guide rod), but yet a plastic plug for a hole in the grip is illegal??? It appears production division is becoming a quasi-limted division. Is the plug illegal because it's looked at as a mag guide of some sort?

The justification for the plug was always the concern that shooters would attempt to add weight above the plug.....

Guiderods are a good thing, since most of us need to tune the recoil springs to work with 130-135 pf loads; honestly after a few years I don't notice much difference between a plastic and a tungsten guiderod.....