N320's Replacement

[XRe]

TG is basically 320.

I think you'll find a lot of us find a good deal of difference between the two powders TG burns hotter than hell, and has a snappier recoil profile than N320. WST, another somewhat popular powder for .40, shoots softer than N320, but has this annoying habit of blowing out cases for some people. Occasional (brave) people run N310 or Clays, which are both reportedly slightly softer than N320, as well - but carry the same dangers as WST.

So, having another alternative or two is an interesting thing...

[TKJ]

I have been using N320 for a long time. I like VV powder but lately it has gotten harder and harder to keep using it. It has gotten more expensive and no one in my area carries it on the shelf except every once in a while you can find the 1lb cans of it and then it is priced at $23.00 per lb.

You think $23 is expensive, here the same ammount costs $43 and the shit is even made here.

[bulm540]

I have been using N320 for a long time. I like VV powder but lately it has gotten harder and harder to keep using it. It has gotten more expensive and no one in my area carries it on the shelf except every once in a while you can find the 1lb cans of it and then it is priced at $23.00 per lb.

You think $23 is expensive, here the same ammount costs $43 and the shit is even made here.

DAmn.....

[zhunter]

OK, you guys have my interest level up!!

I have always used Titegroup for .40, but... It IS dirty!!

So, if this E3 is cleaner and soft or softer, I will give it a try.

So, IS IT WORTH A TRY???

[zhunter]

I have been using N320 for a long time. I like VV powder but lately it has gotten harder and harder to keep using it. It has gotten more expensive and no one in my area carries it on the shelf except every once in a while you can find the 1lb cans of it and then it is priced at $23.00 per lb.

You think $23 is expensive, here the same ammount costs $43 and the shit is even made here.

Yeah, and gas is $8 a gallon where you live too!! Taxes are a B!tch

[Nemo]

Ramshot Competition is not a bad choice. Not very clean though.

[zhunter]

Ramshot Competition is not a bad choice. Not very clean though.

Gotta be clean for me to make a change!!!

[3GunF1Guy]

Alliant claims E3 is the cleanest burning powder made in the world. I think it is clean. Go buy a pound and give it try. Then tell us what you think.

Scott

[foxtrotuniformlima]

/Thread Hijack Mode On

When was the last time you saw Alliant support USPSA at a match ?

/ Thread HiJack Mode Off

[shred]

/Thread Hijack Mode On

When was the last time you saw Alliant support USPSA at a match ?

/ Thread HiJack Mode Off

I got my first pound of Alliant Power Pistol off a prize table at Area 4. Jerry M recommended I try it. I believe they sponsored him as well.

[eric nielsen]

Thank you for the data and especially the photos, Scott - great topic, quality information.

Let us know if anyone shoots this at factory length - 1.125 to 1.135. Have you shot it with Federal primers? That will tell you a lot right there.

Is E3 a new name for Red Dot or is it a new formula of powder?

Edited August 9, 2007 by eric nielsen

[bulm540]

May just have to pick one up and try it.

[ipscbob]

/Thread Hijack Mode On

When was the last time you saw Alliant support USPSA at a match ?

/ Thread HiJack Mode Off

When was the last time you saw Alliant gougeing their customers for $20+ per pound like VV? 'Nuff said, huh?

[sargenv]

E3 could be thought of as a reformulated Red Dot, a Premium if you will. It's supposed to be one of the cleanest powders made to operate at the lower pressures of a shotgun, so it should follow that it should be clean at higher pressures of handguns. I've used a fair amount of Ramshot Competition for Minor 40, I like it and it's fairly accurate. I obtained what I had from Erik Warren when he couldn't make it make major (I think) in one of his guns. It's been great for me in my 610. 3.8 behind a 140 just makes minor.. about 126 ish. 4.0 makes about 138 ish pf in the 6.5" 610 I have. I need to do some more research with E3, Green dot and a few others.. Might have something to share sometime soon. Maybe after the Nationals.

[3GunF1Guy]

Thank you for the data and especially the photos, Scott - great topic, quality information.

Let us know if anyone shoots this at factory length - 1.125 to 1.135. Have you shot it with Federal primers? That will tell you a lot right there.

Is E3 a new name for Red Dot or is it a new formula of powder?

The pictures of the primers with the five different bullets are federal sr primers with 4.5gr of E3.

E3 is a totally new powder, it just happens to have the same burn speed as Red Dot.

There is a lot of data out there for Red Dot at factory lengths. Just figure about where you should be with red dot and lower that by about 10% and that would be a good starting point for E3. If you shoot N320 you could start with the same weight of E3 as you do with N320 and you will be close also. It will probably be a pushing the bullet a little faster than your N320 load so you will need to crono it and keep lowering the charge of E3 till you get the velocity where you want it.

Scott

[newshooter]

I am interested in this powder also! guess next time the gun show comes to town ill see if i can get a LB.

[Bear23]

I'll have to give this a try. I used to use 320, but got tired of trying to find it consistently and the price is just too high.

I switched to TG, I like it but it is ...dirty... and when the temps get into the 90's here in the desert, the gun gets HOT.

I'll give this stuff a try.

[eric nielsen]

Thanks again Scott. I see now that you used CCI SR with 4.1gr, Federal SR with 4.5gr.

Federal SP will deform a little more than Fed SR but not by much.

I have chrono results somewhere for N320 thru my Glock at 1.125 so I will use that value. Been using TiteGroup/WSL since 1992 but the E3 powder seems worth a try.

Edited August 10, 2007 by eric nielsen

[SLM]

Anybody try this stuff in 9mm for 130ish PF with 147's? I'm a fan of Solo 1000 for how clean it is but I'm always looking to add something else to the powder shelf!

[waxman]

I have been strickly reloading 9mm, but will soon switch to 40 when I get my limited gun. I have been very pleased with Power pistol in the 9, and planned on just carrying it over to 40. Is there a reason that PP is not great in the 40? I find it meters great, out of my dillon, chron's consistent, and keeps my xd9 alot cleaner then any thing else I have tried. I find very little said about power pistol, what is the problem?

[sargenv]

Power Pistol works pretty good in the 40, but the main problem is, it's really blasty when compared to the faster burning powders out there like Clays, Titegroup, Universal Clays, N320, etc. I was using power pistol to make major with 140 gr bullets in my 610 and the recoil and blast were really annoying. Sure the load for 180's will be less blasty, but compared to the faster burning powders, you will definitely feel more recoil and get more blast. The name of the game in Limited is getting your gun back on target faster than the other guy, this is done by using the powder with the least "felt" recoil and the least muzzle flip. Power pistol, like Unique, Herco, HS6, IMR7625 and others are disfavored by those who want little muzzle rise and felt recoil. Most of us stick to the faster burners so there is a short pulse rather than a long burn. Of course "short" and "long" are relative when talking about micro seconds.. I'd say get a pound of something like titegroup or clays, and then do your own comparison.

[ebg3]

Have you tried American Select? I've been using it and find I use 0.2gr less of it than 320 with 180gr bullets. I may pick up a pound of e3 and compare.

EG

[Carlos]

Power Pistol works pretty good in the 40, but the main problem is, it's really blasty when compared to the faster burning powders out there like Clays, Titegroup, Universal Clays, N320, etc. I was using power pistol to make major with 140 gr bullets in my 610 and the recoil and blast were really annoying. Sure the load for 180's will be less blasty, but compared to the faster burning powders, you will definitely feel more recoil and get more blast. The name of the game in Limited is getting your gun back on target faster than the other guy, this is done by using the powder with the least "felt" recoil and the least muzzle flip. Power pistol, like Unique, Herco, HS6, IMR7625 and others are disfavored by those who want little muzzle rise and felt recoil. Most of us stick to the faster burners so there is a short pulse rather than a long burn. Of course "short" and "long" are relative when talking about micro seconds.. I'd say get a pound of something like titegroup or clays, and then do your own comparison.

Agree. P P kicked like hell in my .40s. Its way to slow to shoot soft. Fast powders like E3 & Solo 1000 are soft shooting. P.P. kicks like a 200 PF defensive load. But, its available and safe.

Edited August 13, 2007 by Carlos

[Coolduckboy]

I used to use VV N320 and loved it. But with the cost being too so much i switched to TiteGroup and I think it is a great powder i just don't like the flakyness compared to N320 being peletized. I use 4.2gr of titegroup for a 170Pf in my G35 and i used 4.6gr of N320. So practically the same loads for less the money to produce them. Sounds like a win-win situation.

[Bear23]

OK,

I loaded some up the other day.

5" STI Edge.

Win. brass WSP

180 Gr. MG CMJ

1.180" OAL

4.0 gr E3

AVG. 805

ES 32

4.4 gr E3

AVG. 905

ES 32

Looks like 4.6 gr would make a comfortable PF. No primer flow or flattening. I do get flattening with TG now and then at my major loads.

It felt like 320, less snappy than TG. Less dirty and plenty accurate. i could keep shots in the a zone head shot at 10 yards with ease.