Dates for 2008 Nationals and Major Matches?

[Viggen]

But if you had a nationals that did not have a limit imposed, then the numbers in each division should increase and the competitivness would also increase.

The actual competitiveness would increase dramatically. It might mildly irritate the paid professional shooters because they would need to declare A Division for The Nationals. but other than that there is no downside. My guess is that 98% or more in attendance at The Nationals would be well pleased to have a better shot at their Division without professionals from multiple Divisions hopping through .

One Nationals with One Nationals staff instead of three nationals and three nationals staff's. The talent pool for staff gets tired after a while.

[davidball]

Another aspect of not having Nationals scheduled well ahead of time (like by now) is that those of us who direct sectional and area matches are hesitant to put our matches on the calendar for fear that Nationals will get dropped in on the same date or close to it. We can't start doing any serious planning for our events until we know when the big ones are going to be.

[mjbine]

Another aspect of not having Nationals scheduled well ahead of time (like by now) is that those of us who direct sectional and area matches are hesitant to put our matches on the calendar for fear that Nationals will get dropped in on the same date or close to it. We can't start doing any serious planning for our events until we know when the big ones are going to be.

You are right. Other matches will not get posted until the Nationals do. There are some majors that are posted but most of them aren't. How is a shooter suppose to plan his schedule?

[glockaholic]

On the down side. Some people can't take two weeks off work at once. I personally like it being broke up into two and having them at different times. I also think nationals shouldn't be held at the same place every year. It gives everyone a chance to go closer to home. This makes it easier for those who can't, for whatever reason, travel very far.

Edited September 26, 2007 by glockaholic

[boo radley]

What would be the anticipated attendance of a 'combined' Nationals? Would it really be that large? I mean, there are a lot of cross-over shooters who shoot SS at the SS Nationals, and Production at those Nationals, but if all these matches were *concurrent*.....Why would it be so much bigger than, say, Area6?

Edited September 26, 2007 by boo radley

[Gary Stevens]

If I remember correctly the last "choose your division" nationals was set for 550 competitors and did not fill up. This may have been due to it being at PASA, or it may not have been I don't know. It certainly would be nice to strive for that 900-1000 competitor match, but that will be a growing process.

I think a good test would be to try to select a venue that "most" would be satisfied with, and then set a match for a number larger than we have in the past perhaps 600. Then we can see if it fills up or not. Until we fill the expanded match completely there is no use in attempting to build a match for numbers significantly higher. If the 600 match were to fill up then the process could be repeated with a higher number.

As many have noted in the past, the idea of moving a nationals around is great in theory. The fly in the ointment is having a venue that is capable of holding such an event and is also willing to hold the event. USPSA has to be invited before anything substantial can be done. I also agree that even if USSA becomes the grandest facility in the world, at some point our members will tire of going there. Then the quest for greener grass on the other side of the fence will start all over again.

My one cent.

Gary

Edited September 27, 2007 by Gary Stevens

[mjbine]

If I remember correctly the last "choose your division" nationals was set for 550 competitors and did not fill up. This may have been due to it being at PASA, or it may not have been I don't know. It certainly would be nice to strive for that 900-1000 competitor match, but that will be a growing process.

I think a good test would be to try to select a venue that "most" would be satisfied with, and then set a match for a number larger than we have in the past perhaps 600. Then we can see if it fills up or not. Until we fill the expanded match completely there is not use in attempting to build a match for numbers significantly higher. If the 600 match were to fill up then the process could be repeated with a higher number.

As many have noted in the past, the idea of moving a nationals around is great in theory. The fly in the ointment is having a venue that is capable of holding such an event and is also willing to hold the event. USPSA has to be invited before anything substantial can be done. I also agree that even if USSA becomes the grandest facility in the world, at some point our members will tire of going there. Then the quest for greener grass on the other side of the fence will start all over again.

My one cent.

Gary

Thanks Gary. I always look forward to your comments.

[Gary Stevens]

Thanks, that makes at least one

Gary

[ffl]

The USPSA and USSA staff's have a long way to go to put on a top notch Nationals in regard to facilities for sponsors and vendors as well as for shooters. From the looks of the USSA Facility this year they have hardly done anything in the last year, not even water the sod they put on the berms before last years nationals. I wonder if they have ever heard of 2-4-D. They have canceled many matches this year because the staff is off shooting somewhere or because it rained. It takes a lot more than "professional shooters" to manage and staff a range and it takes a lot more than friendship with the president of an organization to be a facility capable of hosting and running a nationals.

or maybe it does?

my 2

[Kevin Kline]

I agree that we should have a combined Nats and try for 500 plus shooters. Lengthen it out to 5 days if necessary. I also think it should be held at Tulsa, middle of US and airfare doesnt get too out of control for anyone. From one corner of the country to the other gets very expensive and almost doubles my airfare.

This increases hotel and restaurant costs and makes it more difficult for juniors (and teachers) if it is scheduled during the school year.

It could be held during the summer, I don't really care when it is held, well, if it is up north, I would care in the snow! But the 5 days and increase in hotel/restaurant is one extra day. This year, we shot 4 days and stayed over night 5. If you lengthen it to 5 days, you shoot 5 days and stay 6. One extra day or night is not nearly as expensive as a complete separate nationals (another hotel, restaurant, flight, car, match fee, etc) or as expensive as doubling the airfare to fly to the opposite corner of the US.

My .02$

[ima45dv8]

"Barry (Quincy) can handle a 500 person, 24 stage "run what ya brung" Nationals. They had 497 people at the 2004 Handgun Nationals. I'm sure Tulsa could work the parking situation out and handle one too."

I liked this approach (my only trip to the Nats so far was 2004). "Dance with the one that brung ya" is a good idea. Admittedly I've had one champ tell me he liked the spilt format so he could compete outside of his "normal" division, and I am happy for him, but I don't support it.

One match -- one gun.

LAMR.

[shred]

Are there any sponsor requests to have Nationals split? Any guesses how many unsponsored shooters shoot both Nationals when they're in separate places?

[BDH]

This is always a popular topic around this time of year, but I've had my eyes opened... there are people already planning on the 2010 Pan AM Shotgun Championships!!! More notice is certainly better, and if we really want to either attract International competitors, OR hold a 1000 competitor Nationals, we need to be planning WAY ahead...

This is OUR organization so it really is up to us to make things happen!!!

[sighttracker]

Hey all

as I posted on another thread. I spoke with MV at the Lim Nats, he stated that USPSA is waiting on IPSC to set the WORLD SHOOT dates in late AUG. However they are SLOW in doing so. Once USPSA has the dates the Nationals dates will be set, maybe June/ July. In years past, pre MV, We have not had the Nationals dates until well into the new year, and it normally ended up at PASA. After a while it got VERY OLD going to the same place over and over. Now drop the keyboard, pick-up the gun and go PRACTICE!!!!!

Sighttracker

[davidball]

It occurs to me that this entire thread would be unnecessary if there was better communication from Sedro Woolley. The rumors reported here are 1) that scheduling our Nationals is delayed because we are waiting for IPSC to schedule the WS, 2) that we will have back-to-back Nats at USSA and 3) nothing will happen until after the election is settled. If this is the case (and we don't know that it is) why couldn't this be communicated to the membership? We (USPSA) have a website and a forum within that website. How about we use it better?

At least we would have an idea of the process and what is going on behind the scenes while we wait.

[j2fast]

It occurs to me that this entire thread would be unnecessary if there was better communication from Sedro Woolley. The rumors reported here are 1) that scheduling our Nationals is delayed because we are waiting for IPSC to schedule the WS, 2) that we will have back-to-back Nats at USSA and 3) nothing will happen until after the election is settled. If this is the case (and we don't know that it is) why couldn't this be communicated to the membership? We (USPSA) have a website and a forum within that website. How about we use it better?

At least we would have an idea of the process and what is going on behind the scenes while we wait.

There you go trying to insert commonsense and logic....... :lol: :lol:

In all seriousness I couldn't have said it better, almost any info from the mother ship is better than the empty void we're looking into now as far as next years schedule goes.

[bgary]

Just a note - Sedro does a pretty good job of disseminating information as soon as they have it.

If they aren't posting something on the website, it usually means they haven't been informed themselves.

I know that - as of this moment - *I* don't know when or where the Nationals will be in 2008, or what format they will be in. So, I doubt they do, either.

$.02

Bruce

[BDH]

I spoke with MV at the Lim Nats, he stated that USPSA is waiting on IPSC to set the WORLD SHOOT dates in late AUG. However they are SLOW in doing so.

I 'think' the WS dates are set...

Match Check-In: 11-17 Aug (Mon-Sun) 0900-2100hrs Secretariat

Ammunition Collection: 11-17 Aug (Mon-Sun) 0900-1600hrs Shooting Range

Pre-Match: 13-15 Aug (Wed-Fri) 0730-1700hrs Shooting Range

Equipment Inspection: 13-16 Aug (Wed-Sat) 0730-1700hrs Shooting Range

Opening Ceremony: 16 Aug (Saturday) 1500-1800hrs Governor's Mansion

General Assembly: 17 Aug (Sunday) 0900-1700hrs Discovery Kartika Plaza Hotel

Main Match: 18-23 Aug (Mon-Sat) 0730-1700hrs Shooting Range

Shoot Off: 24 Aug (Sunday) 0900-1200hrs Shooting Range

Awards Dinner: 24 Aug (Sunday) 1800-2300hrs Discovery Kartika Plaza Hotel

Then again, maybe these are preliminary dates and not yet final...

[davidball]

Just a note - Sedro does a pretty good job of disseminating information as soon as they have it.

If they aren't posting something on the website, it usually means they haven't been informed themselves.

I know that - as of this moment - *I* don't know when or where the Nationals will be in 2008, or what format they will be in. So, I doubt they do, either.

$.02

Bruce

While we don't know when or where the Nationals will be, I suspect there is a process that has begun. Perhaps several target dates and / or some possible range candidates are being considered. Perhaps those that make the decisions have some idea of WHEN the decision will be made. Would it hurt to inform the membership of where we stand in the process? Maybe it would. I simply raise the question.

[Kingman]

David, when you started if then statements. I started imediately thinking about how to negate them.

[Jaxshooter]

ZHunter hit the nail on the head very early in this post. Hopefully the election results will change this.

The European Championships had 800+ shooters and the USPSA can only handle 350 ?????? for National Championships.

[bgary]

While we don't know when or where the Nationals will be, I suspect there is a process that has begun. Perhaps several target dates and / or some possible range candidates are being considered. Perhaps those that make the decisions have some idea of WHEN the decision will be made.

The process probably *has* begun. The problem (?) is that there is only one person involved in the process, and until he announces something, none of the rest of us know anything.

Including Sedro. They can't announce what they don't know.

B

[davidball]

While we don't know when or where the Nationals will be, I suspect there is a process that has begun. Perhaps several target dates and / or some possible range candidates are being considered. Perhaps those that make the decisions have some idea of WHEN the decision will be made.

The process probably *has* begun. The problem (?) is that there is only one person involved in the process, and until he announces something, none of the rest of us know anything.

Including Sedro. They can't announce what they don't know.

B

Thanks, B, your insights have been helpful.

[zhunter]

The problem (?) is that there is only one person involved in the process, and until he announces something, none of the rest of us know anything.

AND, therein lies the problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need I say more?????

Edited October 3, 2007 by zhunter

[sbmd]

I wonder......

600 shoters x $125 entry = $75,000

I think I could put on a 20 - 24 stage match with 75K, cover all the expenses, great shooter gifts, great shooter services and call it a day.

Why do we need a prize table anyway. I went to the 2007 Nationals in Montana, keep in mind I also took the family for a 10 day vacation but I spent $250 on entry and $450 on a plane ticket, I had $700 invested just to set foot in Montana.

I got a really cool Surefire light....retail $129. When I took economics in college, I would be out of business real quick with these numbers, but I go to have fun and with anything in life...the more fun you have the higher the cost. When was the last time you spent $400 to watch paint dry, not much fun watching paint dry. Spend $400 with the Richard Petty Driving School and fun you will have.

My point is, we do not need a prize table to atract people to the nationals. I believe most of the money is going to purchase prizes. However funds are needed to support the match staff. I am all for supporting the match staff with incentives, if you look at it, that is really cheap labor for the reimbursement to hours worked ratio.

Larry