Paul B Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Just so everyone gets a chance to review what may be going on at the larger IPSC and even USPSA matches please take a read of on the above thread in the Global Village Forum under health issues. I would specially encourage those of us over 50 to take a look at the actual policy and compare it with what medications you may be taking. Note that we have rule 10.7 which allows the same thing in USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 In Friggin credible...... The day someone asks me to piss in a bottle to shoot in a match is the _))(*@#&*% day I will............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wakal Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Not just under 50. I'm far under 50 and am on two separate medications that are listed by name in the "no" category, and my highly trained and certified medical professionals read through the policy and laughed me out of the medical center. According to the official policy, you can take "doping" drugs BUT your doctor has to certify that those are the only drugs that will work, period, and fill out extensive paperwork. Heh. As if any professional medical type would honestly certify that ANY drug or treatment is the ONLY treatment. Like we will EVER be a Olympic sport...a pointless exercise and waste of $200 per test that could be put into the match. Yet another example of necessary reform that will never happen as long as inmates are running the asylum. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Hey wait a minute! Which drugs replace practice???? Is this where the phrase "to shoot up" came from? Edited February 23, 2007 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) Another solution searching for a problem... Edited February 23, 2007 by GeorgeInNePa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I can promise you that "Beta Blockers" would be a performance enhancing drug in our sport!!! I will say no more, but they have been used in similar other sports effectively. NUF said!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I'm not a physician, and I might not know that much about Beta blockers, but I wonder how a drug that slows down your heartbeat rate (which is a great help for your hold in bullseye shooting ) might help in practical shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 but I wonder how a drug that slows down your heartbeat rate .. might help in practical shooting. They affect your relative calmness... Golfers have been known to use them until they were banned there, unless medically necessary. Although, I find if I'm too calm, I can't get on the pace, either, so... Beta blockers might not be the ticket for our stuff - I could definitely see them being used for any sort of precision, non-dynamic shooting, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Dave They might have been banned, but they are USED, and try to tell me putting is not a "precision" game. Trust me here boyz, they work!! Many of your hero's who have won Majors have used them. TIGER does NOT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 They might have been banned, but they are USED, and try to tell me putting is not a "precision" game. I totally agree that it is. There is an obvious benefit in the golf game. You misread my post - I'm saying that IPSC is not a precision game, unlike Bullseye, or long range rifle, or... We actually need some "pep" to perform our best, due to the speed required. And... like I said, "unless they are medically necessary"... Pretty easy to find a doc who'll say that, esp. if you're a big shot and all.... I can't imagine that Beta Blockers would help, say, a sprinter, or a raquetball player. I'd equate IPSC with those things, as far as physical requirements of the game go... Mentally, many similarities to golf, of course, but not physically.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 They might have been banned, but they are USED, and try to tell me putting is not a "precision" game. I totally agree that it is. There is an obvious benefit in the golf game. You misread my post - I'm saying that IPSC is not a precision game, unlike Bullseye, or long range rifle, or... We actually need some "pep" to perform our best, due to the speed required. And... like I said, "unless they are medically necessary"... Pretty easy to find a doc who'll say that, esp. if you're a big shot and all.... I can't imagine that Beta Blockers would help, say, a sprinter, or a raquetball player. I'd equate IPSC with those things, as far as physical requirements of the game go... Mentally, many similarities to golf, of course, but not physically.... Dave Why is that the Cyclers thrive to beat the heart rate game too then? You know infinitely more about shooting than I ever will, but I find it hard to believe that slowing the heart rate down, and coming to the line with a calmness that was previously unattainable would not be a benefit!! Being calmer and more in control of your thoughts and emotions would only be a benefit in my book. Just my thoughts, they could be all wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Dave you summed up my exact feelings. I don't think the effect of beta blockers is going to help, when you need to sprint 'n' shoot. Maybe on short courses where you just stand and shoot, but when you have to run fast I'd think other drugs might have a better effect: of course the side effect of these drugs will negatively impact your fine-motion skills that you need the most to aim or transition from target to target... Why is that the Cyclers thrive to beat the heart rate game too then? zhunter, AFAIK, cyclers are trying to beat the heart rate to decrease fatigue. There's a distinct difference between practical shooting (fast, mostly anaerobic sport) and cycling (long, tiring, aerobic sport). There's almost the same difference that divides sprinting and marathon when it comes to physical stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Why is that the Cyclers thrive to beat the heart rate game too then? I don't know cycling, so I can't really say.... Skywalker's response seems reasonable, but I don't know.... You know infinitely more about shooting than I ever will, I kinda doubt that coming to the line with a calmness that was previously unattainable would not be a benefit!! Having never tried beta blockers, I really can't say. I can tell you this - coming to the line with a clear mind is a benefit. However, in my own shooting, I find that if I come to the line too calm, with no sense of being dialed up, I tend to perform lazily. If I come to the line too spun up, I get wild. It seems to take just the right mix of adrenaline and excitement, with a mental calmness, to tie it all together. If a BB would allow for that, it would work. My understanding of them, though, is that they could prevent the "mildly spun up" feeling that seems to work best for me.... It did occur to me, though, that NRA AP might see a lot of benefit from them.... Hmmm..... hell, someone A class or above, who gets the need to be spun up a little bit, give it a whirl and tell us heh heh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Hey wait a minute! Which drugs replace practice???? Is this where the phrase "to shoot up" came from? New excuse: It's not the Indian or the arrow..... it's the peyote' in the peace pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Are Krispy Kreme doughnuts or Milky Way bars on the banned list?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 MMMMMMMMMMMM, doughnuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Listen, BB are NOT for everyone, but for people who get too "hyped", they are very good. I tried them once in a tournament, and I DID NOT like the results. I became way too apathetic. I love the "RUSH" of the game, both when I played golf and now shooting, so they took that away from me. Different people react differently. Maybe the one time I took them, my dosage was not right, who knows. Things like that are like getting an Open gun to work, or a search for the perfect load, it takes some trial and error. But, for the person who is ONLY interested in the outcome, rather than the JOURNEY, BB's are GREAT. Golf, shooting, and life are about the journey to me. And to quote Forrest Gump, "That's all I have to say about that." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJPoLo Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 It's not the Indian or the arrow..... it's the peyote' in the peace pipe. What kinda crazy indian smokes peyote? -Chet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFlowers Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 No one sat down and decided what drugs might or might not be "performance enhancing" for practical shooting. But the IPSC GA decided that one way to protect the sport was to gain recognition with the international sports federations. Maybe that will be a good thing maybe not, don't know. But in order to meet that decision the international standard drug policy was implemented. Yes, it means that half the medication taken by all of us needs Drs Notes to be accepted, but I think the discussion really needs to be around (1) Is recognition a good long term strategy? If it is the drug testing is just something we have to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I just think that drug testing in this sport is a foolish waste of time and money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Yes, it means that half the medication taken by all of us needs Drs Notes to be accepted IIRC, its worse than that. You have to get permission from IPSC before you can start taking the drug, as well (you submit your doc's note that no other solution will work and they sign off on it).... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I just love those decisions and ideas from IPSC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 the amount of alcohol in my blood at any moment in time...oh well, i digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Since I have been on Atenolol which is a Beta Blocker since my heart attack in 1999, am I to be considered a "Cheater", and should expect to banned from competition due to a chemical advantage? I can assure you that taking Atenolol does not give you an advantage in any way, shape, or form, if anything it slows you down. Well that's not completely true, it has keep me from having another heart attack. Does that count as an unfair advantage? IPSC can kiss my ass............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I agree that testing is a bad idea. I was just giving my thoughts on the one drug that I know has been used in a similar sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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