Hoofy Posted February 20, 2007 Share Posted February 20, 2007 Hunting with Zumbo was pre-empted on the Outdoor Channel today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyinBlue Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they locked up the social democrats, I remained silent; I was not a social democrat. When they came for the trade unionists, I did not speak out; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out. author Pastor Martin Niemoller (1892-1984) "His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control." "First they came...." Wikipedia. Wikipedia, 2007. Answers.com 20 Feb. 2007. http://www.answers.com/topic/first-they-came We as firearms owners, regardless of what kind of firearm we choose to use, or what purpose we use them for (hunting, shooting sports, plinking etc.) must remember that attacks on any aspect of our rights as firemarms owners affect us all. If we do not stand together when they get around to your particular interest there may be no one left to stand with you. Throughout history small groups of people have been separated out and persecuted while the majority stood by and did nothing. It is only when individuals unite and stand together that they cannot be overcome. United We Stand, Divided We Fall. MHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb forrest Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 He got what his sorry ass deserved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaG Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Didn't AlGore invent the Noble Prize? Yeah, along with that other piece of paper that he referred to as an "ever changing document", THE CONSTITUTION. DaG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 For completeness could we also have the text of his apology include in this thread also?Not sure which disturbs me more watching a man self-destruct like Mr Zumbo has done or watching others revel in his demise. mcb I for one do not see a single person "revelling" in Mr. Dumbo's demise. Instead what I see is a very large group of "terrorists", slandered by an elitest asshat, who are feeling a great sense of justice, that on this rare occasion one who so aptly deserves his rewards is reaping them in a very public and painful manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) We need to be careful to not confuse glee with the demise of an individual with elation over victory over what I will call "The Old School Gun Establishment." In a way, I almost pity Jim Zumbo. Unless the guy is financially secure, he's probably going to live out his retirement in a camper trailer. That said, I still think the consquences were just. This should be an object lesson for all the other bigoted jerks in the shooting sports. The young turks have finally overthrown the establishment. What happened to Zumbo is the result of decades of festering resentment by those who have been mercilessly crapped on because of their unfashionable choices in firearms. Our numbers, our logic, and our economic power can no longer be ignored. Edited February 21, 2007 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) The young turks have finally overthrown the establishment. What happened to Zumbo is the result of decades of festering resentment by those who have been mercilessly crapped on because of their unfashionable choices in firearms. Our numbers, our logic, and our economic power can no longer be ignored. Let us rise up and take our black guns and.... Woops.... I think this is what Zumbo was talking about.... I do think "we" should be aware that Zumbo's views about the "black gun" as being looked at with apprehension and even fear by a certain (large) segments of the population...is true one. If this is a victory for the "black gun" owners lets not screw it up by coming across as a group of vindictive hillbilly rednecks as pictured in the "How to break in your new rifle" thread...... Edit to add... I do agree with EricW's post Edited February 21, 2007 by Merlin Orr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Now if we could just find an independently rich guy to critique new guns and hunting stuff who is not a paid mouthpiece for the gun companies...I would really like that.. Tired of Boddington going on and on about the new Ruger 375, the WSM and WSSM lines of cartridges...it is all marketing for those that have to get the newest and greatest thing...I rarely hunt with a cartridge younger than I am..and do just fine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Tightloop wrote: Now if we could just find an independently rich guy to critique new guns and hunting stuff who is not a paid mouthpiece for the gun companies...I would really like that..Tired of Boddington going on and on about the new Ruger 375, the WSM and WSSM lines of cartridges...it is all marketing for those that have to get the newest and greatest thing...I rarely hunt with a cartridge younger than I am..and do just fine.... Now I am not a die hard fan of Bill O'Reilly, but there is one thing he said that rings very true with me to this day. It is along the lines of: The purpose of any medium is to sell you something, whether it be the phone (telemarketers), TV (commercials), newspapers (print ads), or the internet (pop up ads). Yep, a lot of those gunzine writers are just "tools" for gun manufacturers. I'm with you Tightloop. I don't think there isn't anything in North America that can't be taken w/ the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the commercial TV business. He who pays the piper, gets to pick the tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Tightloop wrote:Now if we could just find an independently rich guy to critique new guns and hunting stuff who is not a paid mouthpiece for the gun companies...I would really like that..Tired of Boddington going on and on about the new Ruger 375, the WSM and WSSM lines of cartridges...it is all marketing for those that have to get the newest and greatest thing...I rarely hunt with a cartridge younger than I am..and do just fine.... Now I am not a die hard fan of Bill O'Reilly, but there is one thing he said that rings very true with me to this day. It is along the lines of: The purpose of any medium is to sell you something, whether it be the phone (telemarketers), TV (commercials), newspapers (print ads), or the internet (pop up ads). Yep, a lot of those gunzine writers are just "tools" for gun manufacturers. I'm with you Tightloop. I don't think there isn't anything in North America that can't be taken w/ the .30-06 Springfield cartridge. Unfortunately, it is the nature of the commercial TV business. He who pays the piper, gets to pick the tune. Bill O'Riely has come out against the black rifle. I will come out against sweaty teddy if he tries to smooth this over. Like most of us know, the RTKBA has nothing to do with hunting, competition, or plinking for fun. Its got to do with protecting ourselves. Be it from a mugger or a oppresive gubment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 We need to be careful to not confuse glee with the demise of an individual with elation over victory over what I will call "The Old School Gun Establishment." In a way, I almost pity Jim Zumbo. Unless the guy is financially secure, he's probably going to live out his retirement in a camper trailer. That said, I still think the consquences were just. This should be an object lesson for all the other bigoted jerks in the shooting sports. The young turks have finally overthrown the establishment. What happened to Zumbo is the result of decades of festering resentment by those who have been mercilessly crapped on because of their unfashionable choices in firearms. Our numbers, our logic, and our economic power can no longer be ignored. Amen Brother Eric! I have never understood why the guys that shoot trap with a O/U think that gun regulations & controls will never affect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 wow. I hope none of you are ever in a position where you make a mistake that bad. I hope if I ever make that big a mistake I won't face the same fire storm... Mr. Zumbo made a mistake and he makes a living in the firearm world as a hunter. He has to know in the firearm world there are few second chances. Are you all sure you want to treat the Accidental Discharge of his mouth the same as any other AD? what I can see so far is that he has had his mouth taken away... (his blog is shuttered for the moment) please stay mad at him, if you can. I want to know how he can take the next step. I once read the most important thing about a mistake is not that you make one but what you do to fix it. He has admitted a mistake. Consider how he might repair the damage he caused. Facing that music is the hardest part of the apology.... me, I'd start by getting the BradyCampaign to remove my name from the quote. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Miranda, With all due respect an AD is a very serious occurence. Many here believe that there are no such things as AD's only ND's. When the ND hits the berm it is a mistake that can be recovered from only if the shooter is willing to openly and honestly evaluate their mistake. When the ND hits a fellow shooter there is no recovery. Mr. Zumbo's article was NOT a mistake. His subsequent apology was neither open nor honest. He clearly meant what he said/wrote. His ND hit many shooters. Unfortunately for him that ND is unrecoverable. The damage he caused has been grasped by the other team and repairing that damage is impossible regardless of his efforts. As far as working with the Brady Campaign they will never give this up at any cost. It is absolute gold for them. Take care, Craig Edited February 21, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Hi smokshwn, ok I can see your side and I do not expect you to change your mind. I'll aim at the one thing in your post that may be a way to make ammends. I believe that the BradyCamp is causing mr.zumbo much harm by maintaining the Mistake Quote. (it is causing all of the pressuring sponsors to drop him) As such he has many legal avenues. If he gets them to remove it, will you feel he may be sincere in his apology ? What other harm has he caused? How can he fix it? look at the future. The ND/AD here is to be prevented. We want this to never happen again. I think the trick here is to avoid depriving mr. zumbo of a living which will make BradyCamp money mighty tempting. (irresistable...) miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Anyone's chance of getting that material removed from the Brady Campaign's website is minimal --- they quoted published material with proper attribution; I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that constitutes "fair use." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Anyone's chance of getting that material removed from the Brady Campaign's website is minimal --- they quoted published material with proper attribution; I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that constitutes "fair use." I think the proper legal term is, "....snowball's chance in Hell..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 And at least having him recant gives the Brady's less ammunition-- should somebody track it back to the source, it'll be obvious they're picking and choosing quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberneck Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 wow.I hope none of you are ever in a position where you make a mistake that bad. I hope if I ever make that big a mistake I won't face the same fire storm... Mr. Zumbo made a mistake and he makes a living in the firearm world as a hunter. He has to know in the firearm world there are few second chances. Are you all sure you want to treat the Accidental Discharge of his mouth the same as any other AD? what I can see so far is that he has had his mouth taken away... (his blog is shuttered for the moment) please stay mad at him, if you can. I want to know how he can take the next step. I once read the most important thing about a mistake is not that you make one but what you do to fix it. He has admitted a mistake. Consider how he might repair the damage he caused. Facing that music is the hardest part of the apology.... me, I'd start by getting the BradyCampaign to remove my name from the quote. miranda There is a world of difference between an accidental discharge and an negligent discharge. What Zumbo did was not accidental it was negligent. He thought about, he wrote it and then he published it. This wasn't a case of someone putting a mic in his face and asking him a question on the spur of the moment and he blew it. Hell he was on a trip with industry insiders. How hard would it have been for him to ask one of them what they thought of his opinion before he published it. He just didn't care. That IMHO takes this from the realm of accidental into the realm of negligent. It is bad enough when a person discharges a round before they intend to but it is even worse when someone disregards the rules of gun safety and discharges a gun in a negligent manner resulting in the injuries to another. What Zumbo did in a literary sense with his blog is like the idiot that picks up a gun that he doesn't know if it is loaded and points it at a "friend" and pulls the trigger. I am really sorry guys just doesn't cut it. He took every single owner of an AR and threw them under the bus and did so, by his own admission out of complete ignorance and no regard for others. I cannot forgive that. I can forgive the man but I don't want him representing the firearms community in any way, shape or form. I take no joy in another man losing his job but in this case he is so reckless that he has managed to harm a great many honest hard working people who trusted him. To stand by and not demand that he be held to account would negligent on our part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Rubberneck...is rite on the money!! I may add...MR Zumbo claims he did not know that AR's are used in hunting and that they had such a following. I think that has to be a LIE!! How can a person who writes fo gun mag,s for many YEARS and has been involved with guns for 50 years not know? Look at any magazine... articles, advertisments TONS of them!! Pleading ignorance, is an insult! He knew exactly what he was doing IMHO Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) I believe that the BradyCamp is causing mr.zumbo much harmby maintaining the Mistake Quote.(it is causing all of the pressuring sponsors to drop him) As such he has many legal avenues. The BradyCamp caused him absolutely zero harm, Mr. Zumbo caused himself much harm. The sponsors are not dropping him due to any kind of Brady/Anti pressure, they are dropping him due to the fact that he severely harmed the very reason they hired him. As Mark said above the legal chances are slim and none and slim is nowhere to be found If he gets them to remove it, will you feel he may be sincere in his apology ? No, for one to read his apology and sense any kind of sincerity is an amazing leap of faith. He did not simply state that he was opposed to AR's as a hunting platform. He labeled a very large group of law abiding people as terrorists. This was a very intentional use an incredibly negative buzzword, meant to inflame his readers against those of us who use/own the AR/AK/FAL/M1/etc platform. What other harm has he caused? To much to measure at this point. He handed the opposition a golden goose, he compromised those who provided his livelihood, he betrayed those who supported him, and his remarks polarized a community that cannot afford any polarization whatsoever. There may not be a forseeable end to the negative ramifications. How can he fix it? I honestly do not see a "fix" look at the future.The ND/AD here is to be prevented. We want this to never happen again. Agreed I think the trick here is to avoid depriving mr. zumbo of a living No, that was Mr. Zumbo's responsiblity. By his own admission he "wrote the blog, and never thought it through". This by any employer's standards is a very big problem. In my line of work if I were to act with the recklessness of Mr. Zumbo there is a very good chance that a life may be lost. He should consider himself lucky to simply be looking for a little lost income. which will make BradyCamp money mighty tempting. (irresistable...) At least then the enemy would be in the right camp. Take care, Craig Edited February 21, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Anyone's chance of getting that material removed from the Brady Campaign's website is minimal --- they quoted published material with proper attribution; I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that constitutes "fair use." I think the proper legal term is, "....snowball's chance in Hell..." Hi ima45dv8, I used your post because it has both posts in it. ok I agree the chances would be small, however ... two points, one.... would mr. Zumbo's attempt to get the quote off the BradyCamp's site be taken as adding sincerity to his apology? two... I believe that BradyCamp's 'fair use' is causing mr. Zumbo further harm. Since he has publicly retracted the quote, BradyCamp continuing use of the quote should make 'further harm' (a serious loss of income) pretty clear... I think mr. Zumbo is wrong. I am not defending him. I am trying to minimize any possible damage. If the BradyCamp persists in using the quote, then they will be clearly wrong by adding to the suffering of mr. Zumbo and public support may fade from them some. What do you all think an apology is? He has admitted making a mistake, now he has to fix what ever harm he caused. It will behoove all to aid mr. Zumbo in getting his name off BradyCamp's web page. I think he can do it. I will repeat this... what harm has he caused? how can he fix it? miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 I don't have any reason to believe that Zumbo was not sincere in his apology, but he did not address the fact that he called me and a bunch of guys who swore to defend the Constitution of the United States of America terrorists. That was his worst mistake. He can talk bad about my rifle all he wants to. If he said that I should not take my AR to hunt I might agree with him. WE ARE NOT TERRORISTS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 Mr Zuma should become familiar with some other industry and venture forth in the great adventure of establishing himself there, as a writer or whatever else he should desire to do in that industry. Maybe he can find an older mentor to guide him on his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokshwn Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 (edited) Miranda You asked "What do you all think an apology is?" How's this: When I step into a crowded elevator and MISTAKENLY step on your toe, I apologize for causing you harm. Simple, effective. When, sit down at my computer type up a plan to stomp on your foot, send the plan to my editor, publish the plan, and then walk up to you while you are sitting at dinner and intentionally stomp on your foot, an apology for breaking your toe is a hollow attempt to avoid retribution and responsibility. Much more complex and never effective. As far as getting the article off the Brady webpage, please explain some kind of process to do so. As well as why in the world they would ever be motivated to comply. He made their point! Edited February 21, 2007 by smokshwn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted February 21, 2007 Share Posted February 21, 2007 "...When, sit down at my computer type up a plan to stomp on your foot, send the plan to my editor, publish the plan..." Blogs don't normally work that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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