HK USP vs. Sig P226

[doctabako]

I use either an HK USP.45 or a stock 1911 when I compete and I find that sight recovery is faster with the HK and follow up shots are a breeze, I also have no complaints about the trigger, I guess its just a matter of getting used to it. A bonus with the gun is that you can compete in both Standard and Production divisions with it.

[RAZZ]

I shot an old 226 for a year or so in Production with great results. I have always liked the (subjective) "feel" of the gun. Recently, my department went to an HK .45 USP with the LEM trigger option. I'm sure no one in my department really cares, but I dislike the gun. I have average size hands, and the grip seems too long to hold onto properly--the LEM trigger feels long and mushy with no resistive feedback--and the mag release just annoys me. But hey, they still sign my paycheck. I'd like to see SIG put a little more flare in the mag well area on their new steel framed 226.

[Liota]

Might as well jump in here since my very first handgun was a SIG P226, aluminium frame with a nickel coated slide. I adored the feel of the SIG the first time I picked one up. It fit my hand like a glove. It is big and I do have relatively small hands, but the SIG still felt great. The DA trigger is looooonnnggg and smooth. The SA trigger is smooth and short. I like both. That DA shot was always right in the middle of the A-zone. It's recoil is a bit snappy. It has a little more muzzle flip than I really like. That really surprised me after I started shooting my Para a couple of years ago.

I still have that SIG and I still love it. After the nationals I will probably go shoot my SIG in production or maybe even limited, where it started out. Just have to make sure all my hits are A's.

Liota

[Duane Thomas]

Just FYI, Bruce Gray (aka grayguns) is shooting a SIG P226 at the Factory Nats. Quite well, too.

[Kevin Kline]

Hey Bruce,

You still shooting for HK or taking a break? You're right, when we talked that it's hard to shoot the USP and be at the top.

[Gunhead]

Both guns are great IMO.

I am shooting a Standard HK USP9 and 40 (conversion kit) for about five years now, and I have 20k+ rounds total through the gun. Reliability is 100%, I never had to replace, "tune" or "break-in" anything on the pistol. Same mags, same springs. Only the .40SW slide shows wear, but I shoot really hot stuff. When I last checked (somewhere after 15K rounds), accuracy was under 2 inch at 25 meters, offhand.

The USP is definitely NOT a racegun and never will be, but I think it's an excellent all around, low maintenance pistol, for the average IPSC shooter. I see only three weak points,

- trigger and trigger reset (could be fixed by Bruce),

- control lever/decocker (unintentional decocking could be fixed by switching off the decocker),

- weight (you gotta live with that, it's a polymer pistol)

The recoil is not as bad as some think... In fact, I (the poor level "B" guy ) wasn't impressed by the recoil management of the stock, untuned EDGE .40 against the USP40, using the same ammo. The magazine release is extremely fast, just like on the P7, but takes some to to get used to it.

Anyway, I think the P226 ST is a better choice if you only shoot Production.

For Standard AND Production I would pick the HK again from this two.

[n2299]

FWIW for those who like the Sig 226 but feel that the double stack grips make the DA trigger pull too long for their fingers(of whom I am one ). You might want to consider picking up a Sig P220 in 9mm.

[John Thompson]

I've recosidered my opinion on the Sig and with a good trigger and a beveled mag well it should do fine. I hear Sig is going to do something about the placement of the decocker. I like USP but comp guns they ain't.

[aaron268]

I ran the USP's for about three years, and my last match with one was the A1 where I barely won Production with a slightly inert, borrowed gun.  My "tuned" guns were back at HK being counted for the past couple months...

For your consideration: We just did a slew of somewhat subjective and entertaining range experiments which included a lot of 25-yard high-speed, who-cares Bill Drills, some simple scenarios and other speed / controllability tests.  Between the SIG's, XD's, HK's, Glocks and one Beretta we shot, I would rank the "best" 10 Production guns for controllability as follows, assuming ammo PF @130 and each with triggers of similar "feel" where applicable, not that that's really possible:

1) SIG SS 226 9mm- no contest the best for sight return

2) XD Tactical 40- fastest to fire, if not always hit with

3) SIG 226 40- good, stable sight return

6) Glock 34...it's a Glock

6) XD 4" 9...it's Not a Glock

6  G-17...it's THE Glock...all about the same?

8) SIG 226 9

8) Beretta Elite 2...tied with 226 9?

9) USP9F

10) USP Expert 40

Now, does it matter that much?  Not really.  Splits mean little to the disciplined shooter in my opinion.  (That shooter isn't necessarily me!)  Transitions are everything.  The SS 226 weighs almost 40 ounces, great if we only had to shoot standards all day.  For overall nimbleness, shootability, inherent accuracy and trigger quality, the standard SIG's are hard to beat.  The HK's are faster than anything to handle and load, but they flip and buck like a jet powered pogostick.  The XD Tactical 40 impressed everyone that shot it, despite the long reset and mediocre groups we got out of out T&E sample. 

I think I may shoot both the XD and a SIG for a while, and see which I really can run better. -Bruce Gray

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'

when he says

SIG SS 226 9mm

does he mean stainless steel, or sport stock?

[ctgun]

Just my $.02 but I have shot a standard 226 for the last 2 years in production and shot a 220 .45 for plates for a couple of years before that. HK & Sig will both run without a problem but I think that the 226 is much more user friendly and for me more accurate. But that's just my opinion.

[Carlos]

Steel Frame 226 over the hk. But then again, I am a CZ fan so a steel frame/slide just feels right to me. The Sigs are know for their accuracy & the triggers are good (capable of being much better).

D.C. Johnson

www.shootersparadise.com

Team Shooters Paradise GSSF I

[Jasonub]

i heard sig 226 std, not the steel frame break when shot a lot is this true?

[bufit323]

i heard sig 226 std, not the steel frame break when shot a lot is this true?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's the first time I have heard this.

[spd522]

Quote- i heard sig 226 std, not the steel frame break when shot a lot is this true?

Never heard that before. My P226 is 14 yrs old and has thousands of rounds through it . The only things ever replaced were springs and an updated firing pin.

The USP is a stout and durable gun but will never have the smoothness or competitive speed of a SIG. Nor will it be as accurate.

[bufit323]

The USP is a stout and durable gun but will never have the smoothness or competitive speed of a SIG.  Nor will it be as accurate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not sure that the USP is less accurate than the SIG p2xx line, but I agree otherwise that both are fine pistols with the 226 being more competitive. (The USP has its good points also)

[Jasonub]

i am also on the hunt for an ipsc production gun. so far its the lda sig and cz/jerico.

Its so difficult to decide!

sig- accurate so accurate!

17 round mags are available

high grip angle- maybe second shot splits are not very nice

hk- i considered it but only has 15 round mags

lda- 1911 i am coming from an svi limited pistol

-18 round mags! cool

- durablility issues, uncool!

- accurate

Cz- 17 round mags

- combat accurate which means acceptable

- used by a lot of production shooters

[.40AET]

I looked at a P226 last year. The guys at the range/gunshop who also dabble in USPSA, suggested getting a used Sig and making sure that it did in fact have the steel frame. The new ones have a steel slide and an aluminum frame. I'm not positive, but this was done 5 or so years ago to try to provide a lighter duty weapon.

For IPSC, I would either buy an older steel model or shell out the cash for the P226 ST. (Stainless slide and frame)

[Carlos]

For IPSC Production, magazine capacity is critical:

Jason UB wrote: "CZ [&CZ clone like Jericho/baby eagle]- 17 round mags

- combat accurate which means acceptable

- used by a lot of production shooters

5 out of the top 6 finishers at the last World Shoot used either a CZ or a CZ clone. The top guy? Yeah - he used a glock. Does anyone believe the following: "Sevigny would not win at all if not for his Glock brand handgun" ?? I seems to me he did OK at the single stack classic (all 1911, all the time).

What about the other 5 of the top 6 using CZ? I think it says something about whether the CZ/Clone is "capable" in either IPSC or USPSA. Accuracy in more than "acceptable"; CZs are very accurate guns.

But, CZ was not included in the original post. Rather, its a matter of: Sig v. HK.

D.C. Johnson

[Steve Moneypenny]

HK does have a new trigger system out. this may greatly effect the outcome of the battle. I'm not sure how it works. but it is much like the LDA but unlike the LDA you still have that "double strike" capablity. I'm poor or i'd buy one to find out!

[Loves2Shoot]

HK does have a new trigger system out. this may greatly effect the outcome of the battle. I'm not sure how it works. but it is much like the LDA but unlike the LDA you still have that "double strike" capablity. I'm poor or i'd buy one to find out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did they do anything with the mag release catch?

[bufit323]

HK does have a new trigger system out. this may greatly effect the outcome of the battle. I'm not sure how it works. but it is much like the LDA but unlike the LDA you still have that "double strike" capablity. I'm poor or i'd buy one to find out!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the trigger you are talking about is the LEM? I have heard some try it out without much improvment on other HK competiveness. After all, the big knock has been high bore axis, and unpredictable return from recoil (due to the dual spring system). The trigger wouldnt change either of these. In addition, that trigger can be fixed up considerably by a pro like Bruce. I dry fired one of his HK USP expert models, and that trigger is as good as a nice 1911.

[JakeMartens]

Check out a Sig 226 Sport Stock, it is a competition ready 226 with adjustable sights, match grade barrel, and extended controls

http://www.sigarms.com/products/sportpisto...?product_id=208

Sig now also makes a Sig 226 X-5 in single action, Yes I said SINGLE ACTION

5 inch barrel, magwell, thumb safety, single action, adjustable sights, beavertail etc

http://www.sigarms.com/products/sportpisto...?product_id=229

Yeah it isn't cheap, but compared to what we pay for Limited guns all tricked out it is close

Also something to consider (at least I do) SiG is sponsoring shotoers, Bruce Gray and Angie Kelly, they are sending them to the World Shoot. SiG is also putting up big cash at the Steel Challenge this year for the 72 second challenge

http://www.sigarms.com/news/index.asp?display=detail&id=80

I have talked to Paul Erhardt several times over the last couple of months and SiG is really going to be getting into USPSA/IPSC with their guns for Production class.

Check them out and then get ahold of Bruce Gray of GrayGuns to "customize" it a little for you.

[bufit323]

Also something to consider (at least I do) SiG is sponsoring shotoers, Bruce Gray and Angie Kelly, they are sending them to the World Shoot. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry to say, but Bruce had to pull out of the World Shoot, he needs some operating on his elbow. ..

[EricW]

If the USP and the the Sig 2XX series were the only guns on earth that I could shoot production with, and somebody gave me a USP for free..............

....................I would cough up for the Sig.

Then I would go to Ernest Langdon's house and stage a sit-in on his front yard and sing "We Shall Overcome" until he did a trigger job for me.

[JakeMartens]

I was unaware of him pulling out, hope he gets better soon.....