Any Negatives With Clays?

[johes]

I'm about finished with my stock of vv 320. I'm looking to change powders. The majority on this forum seem to swear by Clays. Are there any negatives with Clays? I'm a fairly new reloader and presently only load 45acp with 200gr and 230gr Montana Gold jacketed on a 550b

Edited October 18, 2006 by johes

[JD45]

So far, no.

[zhunter]

I have loaded about 2500 .45 with 4.0 grains of Clays, but so far...

I have only capped off 1 round

[8ring]

You may or may not be able to make 165 PF using Clays and 200gr bullets.

Review load data from Hodgdon's Annual Manual and get out your chrono.

In my limited experience, Clays easily makes 168-170 PF with 230 gr lead, Precision moly coated, and plated bullets, both in my revolver and semi-auto.

Only downside is that smokes a little more and does not meter as well as N-310.

Chris

[HSMITH]

It smokes a little more than 310, and it burns pretty hot. It MIGHT lead your barrel a little faster than some other powders you could use if you use lead bullets. Other than that it is all good. The smoke with jacketed bullets is miniscule, it won't be a problem even shooting 10 shots in a barrel with zero wind. You don't use lead bullets, so leading isn't a factor. Pick up a pound and try it, you will like it.

[Greg Jones]

I used to shoot WW231 and tried some Clays a while back when WW321 was hard to get. I've gone through 10# of Clays now, most at 3.7 grains under a 230 grain Precision black bullet so I have shot somewhere around 19k-20k rounds of this load. The load made 173 PF over the chronograph at the Ohio Sectional match. With the Zero or Montana Gold bullets I have to bump the load to 3.9-4.0 grains to make the same velocities. I have no complaints about this combination as it has worked well for me. I did try Clays with a 200 grain bullet Precision bullet and while I could make PF, I've decided that Tightgroup may be a better choice with lighter bullets in .45.

[n2299]

When I used to shoot a .45, my IPSC(pf 174) load was 4.1gr of Clays, Montana Gold 230gr CMJ load to 1.255 OAL.

[ipscbob]

I found major clays loads in 45acp to be quite variable and spiky in pressure. Too inconsistent for me. The only other issue that I have seen is with minor loads. You can easily load to minor PF and have issues with hard primers such as CCI. At lower pressures with very fast powders like Clays, the primer may not always seal well in the primer pocket on firing. When this happens gas can leak and cause erosion on your breachface.

[FTDR]

You may or may not be able to make 165 PF using Clays and 200gr bullets.

there is no problem making power factor with a 200, or even a 185, i have found no negative with clays until you go outside the .45 acp

[Merlin Orr]

Works absolutely great with the .45 - IMHO... YMMV and all that. The only downside I have found is that it shoots so softly that others might accuse you of running cheater minor loads.

[XD Niner]

Yes, it keeps disappearing from the storage bottle.

Edited October 22, 2006 by XD Niner

[johes]

Can someone fill me in on the pressure spikes that have been mentioned? I'm a long time shooter but a short time reloader. Thanks

[Carmoney]

You may or may not be able to make 165 PF using Clays and 200gr bullets.

there is no problem making power factor with a 200, or even a 185, i have found no negative with clays until you go outside the .45 acp

Agreed. No problem making major with 200s. With cast 200-gr. RNL bullets, it takes 4.2 gr. in Sam's longslide or 4.3 grains in my 5" 1911s to hit the desired 172-173 p.f.

I have never heard of people experiencing any sort of pressure problems with Clays in .45 ACP.

[38superman]

I recently ran comparison tests on N320, Titegroup and Clays for my 45 with 230 FMJ.

After seeing the results, I went out and bought 8 lbs. of Titegroup.

The Clays and Titegroup were close in overall performance but the slide cycle seemed very slow with the Clays.

Titegroup was a little snappier on cycle time, had manageable recoil, and held a slight edge in accuracy.

Nothing wrong with Clays but I suggest you do some load development of your own and discover what works best in your gun.

NOTE:

Clays takes up a lot less room in the 45 case than the powder you have been using.

IIRC your press doesn't auto index.

Take care not to drop a double charge.

It won't be as easy to spot as a double charge of N320.

Tony

Edited October 24, 2006 by tlshores

[Harmon]

heres one negative...small cans only have 14 oz in them...

if you think your gun needs to be cleaned after every trip to the range...this will change your mind...super clean burning powder.

so if you LIKE cleaning your gun, its another negative..

when shooting jackted bulelts it sometimes smells a bit like boiled eggs...leaving one to say "who pooted?"

IMO, its the best powder made for the 45.

Harmon

[FTDR]

heres one negative...small cans only have 14 oz in them...

if you think your gun needs to be cleaned after every trip to the range...this will change your mind...super clean burning powder.

so if you LIKE cleaning your gun, its another negative..

when shooting jackted bulelts it sometimes smells a bit like boiled eggs...leaving one to say "who pooted?"

IMO, its the best powder made for the 45.

Harmon

agreed, i too worked up a tightgroup load, after about 200 rounds my gun was caked with gunk, i can shoot 200 rounds of clays, and it looks the same if i fired 25 rounds, clean

[Steve J]

I tried Clays for 45 ACP and didn't like it at all.

Firstly, due to it's fluffy flakes it doesn't meter well. Next it's very smokey even with FMJ bullets, and lastly you can't get decent muzzle velocity without far exceeding the maximum recommended load, which considering what I've read about Clay's high pressure spikes isn't a good idea at all.

If you're looking for minor PF loads for a revolver, then maybe Clays would fit the bill, but I want at least 750 fps muzzle velocity out of my Baer with a 230 gr. FMJ.

It may work for others, but it didn't work for what I wanted it to do.

Edited November 3, 2006 by Steve J

[DougCarden]

The only pressure problem I have ever seen in .45 with CLAYS was back with the 175 PF. When trying to run 200gr SWC to 180PF you would definitely see some signs on the primers, depending on the gun and barrel some guys would blow primers. At 165PF there is no pressure issues, and it is arguably the best powder for 45 for what we want it to do....

DougC

[Chris Spiess]

You may or may not be able to make 165 PF using Clays and 200gr bullets.

4.0 grains of Clays under a 230 Ranier failed to make major out of my stock Para barrel. It was close, but not quite. It ran about 162-164. However after rebarreling with a BarSto it makes 170PF.

when shooting jacketed bullets it sometimes smells a bit like boiled eggs...leaving one to say "who pooted?"

I've noticed the odor with Raniers as well.

Edited November 10, 2006 by Chris Spiess

[Hipobrow]

I tried Clays for 45 ACP and didn't like it at all.

Firstly, due to it's fluffy flakes it doesn't meter well. Next it's very smokey even with FMJ bullets, and lastly you can't get decent muzzle velocity without far exceeding the maximum recommended load, which considering what I've read about Clay's high pressure spikes isn't a good idea at all.

If you're looking for minor PF loads for a revolver, then maybe Clays would fit the bill, but I want at least 750 fps muzzle velocity out of my Baer with a 230 gr. FMJ.

It may work for others, but it didn't work for what I wanted it to do.

Steve J,

which powder from your experience is less smoky with this combination, like 230 bullet jacketed or plated?

Gene

[TonyT]

Clays is an excellent clean burning powder with jacketed and plated bullets. I experienced some leading with lead bullets which I did not experience with either HS-700X, WST or American Select at the same velocities.

[Harmon]

4.0 grians

berrys plated 230 RN

fed 150 primer

1.250"

avg 745 fps.

approx 171 pf.

this is NOT over the book max load and IS loaded longer than hodgdon specs.

that load also makes major (barely) with 200 SWC...i just hate shooting semi wadcutters.

i guess some dont like even the "best" powder for the 45 ACP/IPSC .

Harmon

[Rico567]

I load nothing but Clays in .45 ACP. I loaded 231 for about 20 years, and was very happy with it. Then a shooting companion told me that Clays had softer recoil, so I bought a bottle of it. I decided the soft recoil factor was probably there, but there were also other benefits. It burns cleaner than 231 in all guns (I use it in my 12 ga. for sporting clays loads, and it doesn't leave unburned powder grains in .45 ACP revolvers, and 231 does), and is somewhat more economical. After that first bottle I didn't have any problem with the contents disappearing- I just buy the 8 lb. jug.

I recently tried Titegroup, but decided it didn't really provide any advantages over Clays, and was dirtier and heated up the gun more, so I used the rest in .45 Colt. As others have noted, I don't regard Clays as suitable powder for higher pressure cartridges. I shoot a lot of .40, and find another Hodgdon powder, Universal, to be quite suitable.

[Mayonaise]

I like Clays for 230gr. So far I've run about 6k of Zero 230gr FMJ but found that real smoky and some leading. I recently bought 2k of Precision coated RN's and find it real clean shooting. Smells some but I attribute that to the molycoat on the bullets.

[LSP972]

I used to shoot WW231 and tried some Clays a while back when WW321 was hard to get. I've gone through 10# of Clays now, most at 3.7 grains under a 230 grain Precision black bullet so I have shot somewhere around 19k-20k rounds of this load. The load made 173 PF over the chronograph at the Ohio Sectional match. With the Zero or Montana Gold bullets I have to bump the load to 3.9-4.0 grains to make the same velocities. I have no complaints about this combination as it has worked well for me. I did try Clays with a 200 grain bullet Precision bullet and while I could make PF, I've decided that Tightgroup may be a better choice with lighter bullets in .45.

Greg, I'm interested in your perception of the Clays compared to 231 regarding soot/residue?

I'm using 231 under a Rainier 230 plated, and am very pleased with the way it shoots. But the light load (4.8) I'm using is DIRTY as heck. Today, I noticed some unburned powder granules on a magazine that had been lying on the deck under the muzzle.

I do not compete, and am not worried about power factors. A soft-shooting practice load is my goal, and the 4.8/231 gives me that. But if I can find a powder that gives me the same results (about 700 fps) and burns cleaner, I'm all over it.

Ideas?

.