XX and XY in USPSA

[Shawn Knight]

C'mon Eric. This one is easy. Go to an old Front Sight and find the ad with Julie G. in that tight black dress. You CAN'T tell me that didn't stop you from turning the page. I don't know about you, but it took me a minute (or 5) to actually realize that Dave was on it too.

There was a dude on that ad?????

I gotta get out more!!

[GeorgeInNePa]

Just the way things are I guess. It's a system of our own making; the market determines what "sells" buy our responses to advertising.

Buy or By? That was a freudian slip....

Somehow a women selling what is basically a man's product really doesn't strike me as anything new in the realm of marketing. How many women are in men's razor commercials, car ads, etc? I chalk that up to the laws of nature rather than the capatilist system of economics however. I offer the "women we love" thread as empirical evidence...hmmm...also created by Mr. Erik Warren coincidentally.

Ouch...that's gonna leave a mark.

Or as the youngsters say, "Oh teh noes!!!11!! pwned!!!!"

[MarkS_A18138]

Eric might be right! I sponsor my wife’s shooting! She's hot and shoots very well! So he does make a good point. I would not sponsor Eric! Sorry dude!

I am going to hell just because I got involved with this thread!

[Shawn Knight]

Eric might be right! I sponsor my wife’s shooting! She's hot and shoots very well! So he does make a good point. I would not sponsor Eric! Sorry dude!

I am going to hell just because I got involved with this thread!

[Kimberley]

First and foremost I have to say that what I post here I post as an individual. I say the following as the girl, Kimberley and not an employee of USPSA. My opinions here in no way reflect the opininons of the organization. They are my own.

Having said that....

Forgive me for not expending a moment grieving over the loss of your vast marketing potential. Unlikely though it may seem, I do realize your intent. I realize you're far from a misogynist. I never mistook you for a chauvinist. Do I think you hate us all? Of course not.

But pardon me also if I throw up if I hear one more "knocker" joke. It's just so beyond the pale. They're made all the worse because when someone complains, the common refrain is: "But. but. we were only joooooking. Don't take it so seriously." Honestly. It's a razor blade wrapped in saccharin. It's comments like those that make the progression of women in sports -- this or any other - that much more difficult. Let me tell you what you're intimating with shit like that: Carina and Athena and Lisa and Julie and insert female name here? They are all sponsored for one reason and one reason only. They have breasts. Their shooting prowess has nothing to do with it. They're easy on the eyes and give great T and A and who cares if they can hit the broad side of a barn? Nice. Now I know you don't really believe that. But does everyone else? Would "Everywoman" who was considering shooting this sport know that? Or would she turn the other way and take up something a little less threatening because she felt unwelcome by the perceived attitude?

And yes. Let's talk about Danica Patrick for a minute. How many times has she had to laugh off those oh so hilarious "time of the month" jokes from her racing "buddies"? She shrugs and and says she doesn't mind and goes on doing what she does because she realizes she's in a male dominated sport where she has to swallow garbage like that all the time because if she doesn't then she's accused of being delicate and unable to "hang" with the big boys and it doesn't matter that she's a damn good athlete. She's! got! OVARIES! They should hang their heads in utter shame. She's on the cover of so many magazines because she's a female racer who also happens to be good and that's why and it has nothing to do with the fact that she bleeds. But that doesn't stop the good ol' boy network from making the comments does it? Of course not. Because they have to justify it in their head somehow. Her presence there. Yes, she's pretty. Yes, she's easy on the eyes. But she's also talented and that should be worth something. I've never heard it said of Casey Kahne, "Oh, he's only sponsored because he's a pretty boy."

And Kournikova? She's only just learned to play the game. She's using her face and body as a marketing device. Despicable to me, but she's taken it out of tennis altogether and gone to a whole other sport. Not everybody's choice, but it's hers to make, so whatever. It is what it is. She knows what sells and she has it in spades. More power, I guess. Do you think we like the fact that when we sit down to watch television we're deluged with enough flesh to make one question whether or not we're watching porn or a commercial for Pepsi? Do you honestly think women are the target audience there? Do you think I enjoy raising two boys with that thrust in their faces every couple minutes a day? We're reminded on a daily basis, an hourly basis, everytime we turn on the TV or pick up a magazine what really makes the world turn. I don't expect that to change. I realize that sex sells and men are wired that way and I don't begrudge them their libidos. Women have them as well. We feed the machine also. There's blood on our hands too. But just because something's been around forever and tolerated, doesn't make it right.

It is enough for me that on average women make far less for doing much more. Besides that we statistically do more of the housework. And child rearing. Not that you all aren't different. I've no doubt some of you will likely jump right in with how your household runs against the grain and I'm sure you're right because you're not the norm and gee, that's fantastic and kudos to you, but no, I don't really need specific examples. I'll take your word for it. You're all very loving and supportive spouses who pitch in and do more than your fair share. I'm grateful and so are your wives and girlfriends and daughters and please keep it up and step by step and onward we go. Model well for your sons and we shall overcome and glory hallelujah -- yea verily, I say unto you, rock on.

But you are who you are and we are who we are and pardon me for not humpin' out the violin because you're a man sans breasts bemoaning the fact that it's so hard for you to find sponsors. It's hard to sympathize, you see, because the playing field is so uneven in so many other places and we're desperate to just find the strength sometimes to drag our tatas out of the freaking trenches long enough to get a view of what you're seeing. We're vying for perspective. To get a glimpse of the air up there for us is pretty sweet and I don't feel like feeling sorry for men who feel sorry for themselves because for once women have what you perceive to be an unfair advantage when really, it's just a leg up. Or a breast. Or whatever you want to call it.

Beyond that, they are a vital necessity to the growth of women in this and other shooting sports. Sponsored women work every bit as hard as their male counterparts and they have their own separate but just as rotten challenges to overcome just for a small and brief moment in the sun before it's all over and done. To reduce it all to the lowest common denominator of a pair of size 40 double D falsies just sort of makes my face hurt.

I apologize for the long post and for speaking so plainly, but I it's something I feel quite strongly about. And you said you wanted a provoking discussion. Plus, I had to get that off my chest. Er, so to speak. Now, if you'll excuse me I'm pretty sure I need to go check the want ads.

[GeorgeInNePa]

And yes. Let's talk about Danica Patrick for a minute. How many times has she had to laugh off those oh so hilarious "time of the month" jokes from her racing "buddies"? She shrugs and and says she doesn't mind and goes on doing what she does because she realizes she's in a male dominated sport where she has to swallow garbage like that all the time because if she doesn't then she's accused of being delicate and unable to "hang" with the big boys and it doesn't matter that she's a damn good athlete. She's! got! OVARIES! They should hang their heads in utter shame. She's on the cover of so many magazines because she's a female racer who also happens to be good and that's why and it has nothing to do with the fact that she bleeds. But that doesn't stop the good ol' boy network from making the comments does it? Of course not. Because they have to justify it in their head somehow. Her presence there. Yes, she's pretty. Yes, she's easy on the eyes. But she's also talented and that should be worth something. I've never heard it said of Casey Kahne, "Oh, he's only sponsored because he's a pretty boy."

And Kournikova? She's only just learned to play the game. She's using her face and body as a marketing device. Despicable to me, but she's taken it out of tennis altogether and gone to a whole other sport. Not everybody's choice, but it's hers to make, so whatever. It is what it is. She knows what sells and she has it in spades. More power, I guess. Do you think we like the fact that when we sit down to watch television we're deluged with enough flesh to make one question whether or not we're watching porn or a commercial for Pepsi? Do you honestly think women are the target audience there? Do you think I enjoy raising two boys with that thrust in their faces every couple minutes a day? We're reminded on a daily basis, an hourly basis, everytime we turn on the TV or pick up a magazine what really makes the world turn. I don't expect that to change. I realize that sex sells and men are wired that way and I don't begrudge them their libidos. Women have them as well. We feed the machine also. There's blood on our hands too. But just because something's been around forever and tolerated, doesn't make it right.

Kimberly,

Not to subtract from anything else you said (typed), I wouldn't feel too sorry for poor Danica, unless that is, you know that she was forced to do the photo spread for FHM.

indymotorspeedway.com/danica.htm

Edited September 26, 2006 by GeorgeInNePa

[ErikW]

It ain't about the breasts, it's about the gender. I could have substituted any other female-specific anatomy, and I did mention the chromosomes in the title.

I'm not bemoaning the fact it's hard to find sponsors; unlike one woman I communicated with via PM, I never took the effort to seek them out. I don't begrude the women their sponsors, in fact I admire their ability to attain and retain them. But, they are aided by the gender bias in media attention, which surely affects the sponsors.

I tuned into Shooting Gallery today. They were at Gunsite. They followed a female shooter through the funhouse. Then another female shooter. Then a guy. (I doubt the class was 66% female.) Later, they spent a lot of time with a female instructor. So the geneder bias in media attention isn't just a USPSA thing, as we've seen with the non-shooting sports.

[Kimberkid]

I will always find it odd that people assume that becuase they are a good shooter, they should have a sponsor. The gun industry is a business, meaning said companies will do what they feel is the best way to bring in more cash. Maybe that means they sponsor someone who is the best shooter, or the best salesman, or the best instructor, or looks the best in their line of holsters. That is up to the company to decide. I know of several people classed below GM that have different levels of sponsorship solely because they are gregarious and fun, and get the word out about a quality product.

Having briefly met Eric, and from this forum, you seem like a pretty decent dude, and the numbers dont lie so it is obvious you can shoot. That, however, doesnt make the whole package. Maybe another guy out there doesnt shoot as well, but he is nicer to old people and dogs at matches. Maybe another guy brasses and tapes like a champ and sponsors want that to be seen. Maybe another guy has 40DDD's and a sponsor wants to promote his new style of magpouches. There are a lot of reasons different people are, or are not sponsored, and their are too many variables for me to stab a guess at why certain people have the situations that they have.

If Shooter X wins every major match ever held, in every division, but screams loudly questioning the moral fortitude of the match staff's mothers, is it likely he will get sponsored?

[Skywalker]

If Shooter X wins every major match ever held, in every division, but screams loudly questioning the moral fortitude of the match staff's mothers, is it likely he will get sponsored?

I wonder how John Mc Enroe ever got sponsored ...

[XRe]

Nice rant, Kim!!!!

I was about to paraphrase Cartman and say "Get back in the kitchen and make me some squad lists!", but then I realized that, breasts or not, you'd probably kick my ass, so...

Edited September 26, 2006 by XRe

[bgary]

+1

I've never loved you more than I do right this minute, Kim...

B

[reneet]

Good one, Kim. Great seeing you @ Nationals.

This thread reminded me of the famous "boobs" quote from Erin Brokovich.

[mactiger]

+1

I've never loved you more than I do right this minute, Kim...

B

News flash: Area Director killed in massive lightning strike! Unusual weather for Pacific Northwest; witnesses say sky was sunny and clear, and that the victim appeared to be typing on his computer at the time.

One of the eyewitnesses, Ms. Lottie Scheiss, stated that "he had just pushed back from his keyboard and was wearing a little grin, when all of a sudden, a huge, blue, fist-shaped bolt sprang from the monitor and struck him full in the chest."

Troy

[bgary]

[ysued]

If Shooter X wins every major match ever held, in every division, but screams loudly questioning the moral fortitude of the match staff's mothers, is it likely he will get sponsored?

That reminds me of someone I know!!

I won't name names!!

[Kimberley]

Nice rant, Kim!!!!

I was about to paraphrase Cartman and say "Get back in the kitchen and make me some squad lists!", but then I realized that, breasts or not, you'd probably kick my ass, so...

Squadding is woman's work? What?!? They're coming, X. Today even! I was just so busy being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen making chicken pot pies for all the menfolk I haven't had time! But pending final approval from the powers, they'll be up today. Scout's honor!

Kimberly,

Not to subtract from anything else you said (typed), I wouldn't feel too sorry for poor Danica, unless that is, you know that she was forced to do the photo spread for FHM.

indymotorspeedway.com/danica.htm

George, I don't recall saying I felt sorry for Danica at all. In fact, not to quote myself, but to *totally* quote myself, I believe I said, "We feed the machine also. There's blood on our hands too" -- No, she needs none of my sympathy. In fact, I'm sure she laughs all the way to the bank every time a joke is made at her gender's expense: "Yeah, thats right, bucksnort. Endorsement deals sure pay for a lot of feminine hygiene products. How are you making out?"

My whole point is, you get as good as you give, in this and everything. And some things just simply aren't pretty no matter how pretty they might seem. I think Erik and I are pretty much in agreement but coming at it from two different angles. It's highly unfortunate that the media pays more attention to one gender than the other for whatever reason and sometimes those reasons are so demeaning and stupid it's discouraging.

But then again, I also felt no pity for Joe Namath when he was hawkin' panty hose.

[38supPat]

I won't rant but I don't think many that have posted have any real idea on what it takes to get sponsorships. If you think that companies are going to seek you out, whether you win the Nationals or not, to give you money, you are mistaken. There has to be more on the table than trophies. Are you willing to use your vacation time work your sponsors booth at the SHOT show? How about a 1/2 dozen other trade shows...oops no time left for family vacation time. How about being 'on' 24-7 about your sponsors. That means promoting your sponsor (don't ever bad mouth anything they make/sell) and don't speak unkindly about the competition either. Ever posted in the 'hate' forum about some companies product or service? Was it a USPSA sponsor or personal sponsor to another shooter? It looks incredibly bad to potential sponsors if you have.

Have you ever put together a professional sponsorship proposal? It better be filled out with more than class, Division or regional titles. What are you offering to the potential sponsor? If all you can think of is give me money and I'll wear your shirt, think again...it may happen but it's rare.

How are you at speaking to large groups? How are you one on one? How are you at remembering names? How do you dress, at the match and away from the match, remember you have to be 'on' 24/7.

How many here wear 'X' products t'shirt? What did they give you to wear it? Or did you pay them for the shirt? Why would a company offer sponsorship (which is just another word for advertising...you are a representative and a billboard) if you are willing to pay them to wear their t-shirt? Thats even better to a company than free advertising. They get advertising on your body...and you pay them for the priviledge. How many shooters do you see wearing company logos that you know don't get a dime of sponsorship money or product?

Ok maybe I did rant, but breasts are not the problem with getting or not getting sponsorship

[Nemo]

Would somebody please sponsor Erik, so he doesn't have to get the breasts?

[tightloop]

Heck no, I am curious as to what he'd look like with a great pair...

[38supPat]

I call dibs on first fondle!

[Nemo]

Heck no, I am curious as to what he'd look like with a great pair...

Ok... Where's that puking smilie when you need it?

[XRe]

Squadding is woman's work? What?!?

Only cause you're better at it heh heh...

They're coming, X. Today even! I was just so busy being barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen making chicken pot pies for all the menfolk I haven't had time! But pending final approval from the powers, they'll be up today. Scout's honor!

Woo hoo!!! Everyone's gettin' antsy and excited about the match, so... I was just pokin' fun, though... good things come to those who wait and all that

[ima45dv8]

I call dibs on first fondle!

YOU'VE GOT IT!

<<yuck!>>

[38superman]

If I had breasts, I'd have sponsors.

Team "Victoria's Secret"?

That's a sponsor that would make the prize table more interesting.

Tony

[lynn jones]

I won't rant but I don't think many that have posted have any real idea on what it takes to get sponsorships. If you think that companies are going to seek you out, whether you win the Nationals or not, to give you money, you are mistaken. There has to be more on the table than trophies. Are you willing to use your vacation time work your sponsors booth at the SHOT show? How about a 1/2 dozen other trade shows...oops no time left for family vacation time. How about being 'on' 24-7 about your sponsors. That means promoting your sponsor (don't ever bad mouth anything they make/sell) and don't speak unkindly about the competition either. Ever posted in the 'hate' forum about some companies product or service? Was it a USPSA sponsor or personal sponsor to another shooter? It looks incredibly bad to potential sponsors if you have.

Have you ever put together a professional sponsorship proposal? It better be filled out with more than class, Division or regional titles. What are you offering to the potential sponsor? If all you can think of is give me money and I'll wear your shirt, think again...it may happen but it's rare.

How are you at speaking to large groups? How are you one on one? How are you at remembering names? How do you dress, at the match and away from the match, remember you have to be 'on' 24/7.

How many here wear 'X' products t'shirt? What did they give you to wear it? Or did you pay them for the shirt? Why would a company offer sponsorship (which is just another word for advertising...you are a representative and a billboard) if you are willing to pay them to wear their t-shirt? Thats even better to a company than free advertising. They get advertising on your body...and you pay them for the priviledge. How many shooters do you see wearing company logos that you know don't get a dime of sponsorship money or product?

Ok maybe I did rant, but breasts are not the problem with getting or not getting sponsorship

that about sums it all up!

good post pat.

lynn

Heck no, I am curious as to what he'd look like with a great pair...

hairy breast

oh my.