Jaxshooter Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 I am trying to find out what is the best single optic for Tactical Division. I have an Eotech 512 on a Socom 16. I am looking for something for a JP CTR-02 set up for Tactical. Talk lately is that the Eotech dosen't work past 200 yards. What are most people going with in Tactical that will work up close and long range if this is even possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 ACOG or the new Elcan Spectre DR would be my choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 For my eyes, I really like the Leupold CQT. Works great for up close (much like your Eotech) yet you can bring it up to 3x for the approx. 10 percent of shots out to around 300 yards. Higher power would be nice, but with practice is really not needed. Pat Kelley gave me good information. Practice with what you have, it isn't about the gadgets, the secret is in the practice. When Kurtm, Bruce Piatt, Bennie Cooley, and lots of other iron sight shooters kick most optical shooters butts, it isn't majic. Just knowing your weapon through lots of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 5, 2006 Share Posted July 5, 2006 First, Mike Voigt and Bennie Cooley do pretty well with their EOTech's. I just takes some practicing, and you can easily tack targets out to 300+. That being said, if I had one optic to choose for Tactical Division, especially for a CTR-02, it'd be a TA-11 w/ tewlman's occluded lens cover (Progressive Machine). You open it for the long shots, close it for the short ones...no problemo. I still have hope that Leupold will put a small horizontal stadia into their CQ/T scope. If they ever do, and drop the price a smidge, I'd consider using their scope. I'm ruling out anything non-maginified, 'cause I think that's why you don't like the EOTech. Hope that helped. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 5, 2006 Author Share Posted July 5, 2006 What about the Aimpoint with the 3X Magnifier, has anybody tried that? I also understand you can use the 3 X magnifier in conjunction with the Eotech. I do like the Eotech but with these old eyes I think I need some magnification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 One of the local guys has one. The field of view is kinda screwy and really particular on head position. neat concept but it loses something in actual application. The acog is great if your vision works with the OEG concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted July 6, 2006 Author Share Posted July 6, 2006 I will have to test that to see if I can do it. Is it possible to block the lens on my Open pistol and see if it works for me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chriss Grube Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Maybe a tube sight? Best to try it out with a real acog and fire a couple rounds to check POA - POI changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Jaxshooter, If you like the EOTech "Saturn" style reticle, then I would consider the Leupold CQT scope. It features the same reticle with a 1-3 magnification range. It has a good field of view and best of all it's a true one-power scope, so you'll be able to hose all of the up close stuff. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 The archive should hold a ton of info on this. Right now seems the hot thing is to find a 1 to 4 power scope with extended eye relief that has large field of view and reticle you like. At cheap end was the Simmons discontinued 1/4 power for about $50 bucks alot of people liked it. Now leupold makes a two different 1/4's one is about $200 and other about $600/700. I bought the shotgun scope 1/4 with extended eye relief good field of view and heavy duplex. I've got two Acogs but they are slow for up close shooting, iron site on top is limited in its usefullness. Also got the trijicon reflex, it is OK but is useless if you enter a dark room with light on the gun. I also like my scopes mount low, which means no front site. When RO'ing I notice that people with scopes mounted high lost time doing the head bobbing looking for reticle. You should be able to mount your gun with your eyes close and when you open them the reticle should be available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Egads, this topic AGAIN!!! Read Erik's article in Front Sight or do a search. There is no "single best optic" for Tactical class. They all have advantages and disadvantages. What you may enounter at a match in North Carolina may be very different from what you encounter at Raton. Regardless of what you pick, practicing and having a good zero are the most important factors, really the only ones. I've competed in all the various camps: nonmagnified red dot (Eotech), lowpowered variable (Leupold 1.5-5X and IOR 1.1-4X), and fixed power (ACOG and JP close iron). In general for Tactical Div., I prefer the low powered variable route but it truly makes VERY little difference. I have seen Tactical matches won with Eotechs, lowpowered variables and ACOGs. As for the Eotech not working past 200, that's not exactly true. It works just fine if you practice with it past 200. Where it can bite you is situation where targets are in the shade or have been shot up and have become indistinct, places where magnification helps ID the target. That is where the add-on magnifiers can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 Gotta back Kelly up here, if you can't see te target you can't hit it, I have been to matches where targets blend so well with the berm you couldn't find them with the naked eye, and seen steel beat to a color you couldn't see unless you had the eyes of an eagle and those are the only reasons I shoot low power variables(LPV), I competed for years with the ACOGs and shot many matches with the Eotechs, but the LPV's have proven to be the best all around choice jc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I really like my Meopta Meostar 1-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 + 1 on the meostar 1x4x22rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I am running the Meostar 1x4 on mine. Really like it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I really like my 1X optic, it never runs out of batteries and it is very light...Decote and a post! , but if it,s glass it,s a Meopta R-1! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 I really like my 1X optic, it never runs out of batteries and it is very light...Decote and a post! , but if it,s glass it,s a Meopta R-1! KURT Uhhh, no ACOG TA-11? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 + 1 on the meostar 1x4x22rd Do you run a back up iron sight on a tactical rifle with a scope just in case you want or need to shoot Limited? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Why is no one talking about the Trijicon Accupiont 1.25-4 specifically? I really like it for zero to 300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 In Taran's hands I think the TR21 has been used to win most of the USPSA Nationals Tactical championships. I wouldn't be surprised if you told me that the TR21 is the only scope that has been used successfully to win that title. The TR21 is a good scope. I think you are hearing more about the Meopta because 1) it is "new", 2) most people prefer variables and 3) probably because (overall) it just kicks the TR21's ass. IMHO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Taran hasn't used a TR-21 for a couple of years now. He had some zero shift issues, so he is on to other things. The TR-21 came out befor the Meopta really started out over here, and is a good scope, but it isn't a true 1X and it doesn't have a great field of view. For the same amount of money the Meopta is a much better scope IF you don't already have one! Big Dave I got so tired of everyone telling me and others that the TA-11 can't be shot fast close-up, and the fact that I'm finding that very few people DON'T have a dominante eye issue, That for first time scope buyers I am recomending the Meopta. I have one on a nice light 20" carbine ( well Mike45 does and since he can't take it to England, I play with it once in a while ), and while it doesn't do anything for me that the TA-11 doesn't do, it is very easy for first time scope shooters to use. For me it will always be a TA-11....unless... IF they made the Elcan Spector 1X-4X with the TA-11 type reticle that is what I would use, but when Elcan "borrowed" the reticle that it has, they "borrowed" the WRONG ONE!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AH6IP Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 (edited) I have looked at alot of scopes over the years. I dont have perfect eyes (kurtm) so I am finicky about this. But-I truly believe that the Weaver 1X3 is the best I have ever used. I dont care what it costs; it works well, zero's great, and well, just works. Very clear, and yes, 300 yd plates are not a problem. Think about it; if you can shoot iron at 100, then 3X at 300 is no different. Not very many matches shoot beyond 300. And, it is a true 1X when you need it. Price? Around $130. And it stands up to magnum calibers just fine. Benelli2 was a witness to how well this scopes works. I think he was impressed. Edited July 13, 2006 by AH6IP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paule Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Taran is actually shooting TR21's again. He switched to TA11's for awhile 3 years ago when the YHM mounts wouldn't stay put, but we got PRI to build a special Accu-mount for us and solved the zero problem. He went back to the Accupoints last year prior to the Nationals in Vegas. He has only shot Accupoints this year, and will be shooting one again in Albany in a couple weeks. The TR21's are good scopes for 3-gunning, but they are certainly not the holy grail. I haven't seen that one yet. Word from our guy at S&B is that they have done a redesign on the Short-Dot after listening to a lot of shooters' feedback on that scope. I haven't gotten one of the new ones yet, but supposedly they have eliminated the blue tint, gotten higher light transmission, and shed some of the unwanted weight (as well as lowering the price some). May even be an option to get the reticle in the second focal plane, which will make it nice for the 3-400 yard targets. Still going to be a high dollar piece, but maybe a good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 I have always said and will continue to say that the Weaver 1-3x20 is the most underated scope in the 3-gun community. I been using one since 2000 (until this year) and it has served me extremely well. While I will be using a different scope this season, the Weaver still sits on my backup rifle. I would recommend this scope to any new shooter over the Meopta. Not based on quality, but on size, price (you can get 3 Weavers for the price of one Meopta), and familiar reticle design. I actually prefer the Meopta style reticle, but it can be a bit more difficult for a new shooter to use. Part II of the scope selection article is finished and should be in the next Front Sight issue. Many of these questions will be addressed. Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Perfect eyes?? Not according to my rather thick Decote shooting glasses. I have so many steps of nystigma that I get to read EVERY word at least 5 times Just to show you how far I am behind the times, I though Weaver was out of business, and at SMM3-G I thought Taran wasn't running a TR-21., at least he said he wasn't when I talked to him, I'm glad he is back to one. As for crosshair scopes, I have found that most people will be a little slow with them as opposed to a dot or doughnut reticle. The only reason for this I can come up with is that the precise aiming point makes the eye want to place it precisely in the middle of the target, It is hard for most people to say "close enough" and yank the trigger a good one. It is that momentary hesitation that slows the crosshair scopes......but if it works for you, GREAT!! Who am I to say, I'm the guy with "Marty Feldman" visiion that can use a TA-11 up close. Paule said it best...NO ONE MAKES the best 3-gun scope!! Although I must inquier what is a S&D scope?? I am behind the times! Kurt ( still shooting iron because I think scopes are a passing fad) Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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