Anyone Upgrade From A 550 To 650?

[Empyrean]

I had a rather lengthy conversation with Brian today to discuss the idea of replacing my 550 for a 650. As a result, I'm on the fence as to whether I want to upgrade or not. I reload 9mm, .223 and .308. Putting the increased reloading speed of the 650, the benefit of upgrading to the 650 would be auto-indexing and a case feeder that does rifle cases unlike the 550. The downside is slower caliber changes and a more complex machine.

I am curious to know whether any of you have gone from a 550 to 650. For those of you that did, do you still have your 550? I would be particularly interested in people that reload multiple calibers on their 650 and if you find it significantly harder to change calibers. Basically, I am looking for any feedback or advice you'd be willing to share.

Thanks in advance,

AJ

Edited January 23, 2006 by Empyrean

[rtr]

I have a 550, thought long and hard about getting a 650.

The 650 is more complex so it can take longer to fix problems as they come up, takes longer to change calibers. But of course it loads faster, although now with the casefeeder the 550 is closer to being as fast as the 650.

Really depends largely on how often you switch calibers and how much ammo you load. I tend to switch loading calibers pretty quickly (say a few hundred round intervals) loading .223, 9mm and .40, I can switch a caliber and be up and running in 5-10 mins. But I only shoot 500-1500 rounds a month.

[AzShooter]

I have a 550 and a 650. I love them both but have to admit the 650 is my favorite. Loading speed is better, I like the auto advance and the fact that I can spend an hour at the bench and have enough ammo for a couple of weeks.

I use the 650 for all my .38s I may have to get the shell plate for the .45 and just use the 650 for everything except my BPCR rounds.

[bgary]

I used a 550 for about two years, then sold it and got a 650.

Main reasons

-- auto-indexing

-- case feeder (now/soon available for 550)

-- 5th spot in tool head

Even with a case-feeder on the 550, I'd probably do it again. The 650 auto-index just makes things so much easier - less hand movement = faster/smoother production

Bruce

[AlamoShooter]

About five years ago went to the 650 had the 550 for 9 years. My Son Inlaw got the 550 with his brother.

The 650 is grate...I can not see how changeing calibers is any more difficult. If you can reload changing calibers is 15 to 20 seconds more to change on a 650 over a 550. giveme a beep and I may be able to do it faster.

With the 650 I can use a non dillon powder drop if I want to, a rifle micro adjustable /bench rest quality powder drop when I wont to ...With!...Auto powder activated drop. and make sub minute groops for my AR.

Hornady makes an atachemnt that can be put in the third station for powder.

One other thing you will see in the 650 is that it is beefy just plain looks like a Big Boy loader. most 550 guys cant keep their hands off the 650.

If you have a buddy come over that 'only' has a 550, and you try to taulk to him ... he will have his eye all over your 650.

The 650 is as good as cleavage

[iweiny]

Well I did not exactly upgrade the 550 but... The wife just started shooting .40. So we got her, her own press, a 650. I have to say that she is really cranking out the loads. So with the 550 and 650 side by side last night she cranked out 400 rds while I did only 300 on my 550. This was in about the same amount of time. It seems to me that the 550 can be pretty fast once you get it down. But the steps involved in that speed are pretty complex. She seems to be really smooth in getting that many rounds.

I do have to say that in the 550's defense it seems to be better at changing things around. The 650's primer system has about 8-10 primers in it once the tube is empty. You really can't turn it off either. So for "load development" I think I like the 550. I can put in a whole tube of primers and load a few then remove the little bar from the primer system and mess with the powder and stroke to get the charge right then put the bar back in... (The bar I am talking about is that little "spring" bar which makes the primer bar go back to pick up another primer.) As I don't play around with my loads that much I am really jones'n for a 650. But will probably stick with my 550 until I can get a good deal. I just can't afford the 650 right now. Also I am waiting to see if others really like the case feeder for the 550. I could see that speeding me up a bit. But I have to admit that auto-indexing sure seems slick when I see my wife cranking away.

Ira

[blue edge]

I have had a 550 for about 6

years. I use it for odd calibers ( stuff i dont shoot alot of ).

I have two 650s one for the open gun and one for the limited gun

The 650s are for speed.

You can not go wrong either one

Good Luck Kevin

[Empyrean]

Thanks everyone for all your feedback so far. Keep it coming! It definitely helps me weigh my options. I did want to point out that the new casefeeder for the 550 will only work with pistol cases and not rifle. I didn't know that until today.

So far, it seems like everyone that went from a 550 to 650 have no regrets even with the increased time to change calibers.

[CSEMARTIN]

I went through the same dilemma two years ago. I started out with a 550, and I love it. I bought a 650, and I love it too. You'll be happy with whatever you decide to do. You really can't go wrong with either of the two.

[scooterj]

I too have both a 550 and a 650. I use the 550 mainly for load development in 40 and 38super, and the 650 to crank them out. The 550 loads all my 9mm and 40 minor ammo. Conversions with these calibers is as easy as changing toolhead and locater pins, if needed.

[rishii]

had and old 450, loaded on it for years. got a 650 for 9, super and 45. kept the 450 for everything else. after a few years of loving my 650, when ever I went back to loading on the 450, the more I hated it. I slowly got conversion for every caliber I load, and sent the 450 off to a good home.

[XRe]

I've owned a 650. I currently own a 550. You can turn out quality ammo with either press. Both have their plusses and minuses. The intended 5th station on the 650 is ostensibly for powder check - which I never found useful, in practice, at least w/ race gun major loads. In fact, I moved my seat die to that station.

The 650 is a little faster, assuming everything is running (and being run) smoothly. I had various minor issues along the way - it's a complicated device, so no suprises. Nothing that couldn't be easily corrected. Occasional jams in the casefeed, and such.

I can load almost as quickly on the 550. The 550 requires more discipline - you *have* to make sure you index the shell plate - otherwise, with fast powders, you could throw a double charge. Part of my routine is to seat a bullet on the case on the downstroke, as the case gets below the powder die. That way, I always know that I've got a powder charge in that case, even if I forget to index the shell plate. I've turned out 600 rounds in an hour on the 550 without really trying - and without the casefeeder. So, it's not slow, once you find a rhythm. I find the 550 much easier for load development, as well - the auto-indexing and primer system in the 650 put it at a relative disadvantage, here (though I did plenty on my 650, as well...)

Caliber conversion is about the same between the two, assuming you don't switch primer sizes. The 650 is a little slower, then, unless you have a complete primer feed assembly in the other size (then it's pretty darn quick).

Both presses benefit from the strong mount, bullet tray, and roller handle. The 550 also benefits from the empty case bin. I'd also recommend the low powder warning system. I recently aquired a UniqueTek powder bar upgrade - that's some slick stuff right there!!!

Both machines are also top notch quality, with top notch support. You really can't go wrong with either one, if you had to pick just one to use.

A buddy tried to load .223 on my 650 for a while, and ran into a lot of problems with the casefeeder. He never did call Dillon about it, though, so I don't know if those were resolvable or not. I presume they were.

[benos]

AJ,

Interesting thread - thanks for starting it.

I think it would be helpful for this discussion - in regards to your actual situation and to me, because as you could imagine I hear this question quite frequently - if you posted (added) your average monthly round count for 9, 223, and 308.

Thanks,

be

[Empyrean]

Brian,

I'm not sure as to my usage as I haven't had the time to shoot for awhile with school, traveling, getting engaged and plenty of work at the office. It is going to be my focus to shoot more often as the weather gets warmer. In the last two Saturdays I probably shot 750 rounds between my 9mm and .22 pistols. I actually will shoot more 9mm once I get my load worked up. The .22 I've bee try to get sighted in and practice my shooting technique.

Once the warmer weather comes, I will probably spend quite a bit of time outdoors shooting my .223 and my .308 rifles. It would be nice to load a couple thousand 9mm rounds and then convert to .223 to load a couple thousand for that and so on to last me the better part of the season. I just don't have time to reload every weekend. I'd rather be shooting in the few hours I have the time.

I think there are probably two types of reloaders. People that just want to reload a bunch of ammo to last them a large portion of the year in the minimum amount of time and those that reload as they need it.

I am thinking that the 550 is well-suited for both small and large production albeit slower than the 650. The 650 is well-suited for high production with less frequent caliber changes. That is where I mostly fall I think.

Since our conversation, I have been giving serious thought to my motivation for wanting to convert to the 650. I think part of it is the reduction of steps necessary to work the press. Less movement overall with a potential speed increase to boot. The 650 signficantly reduces those steps and I do like idea the auto-indexing feature. As I mentioned to you, I think the auto-indexing feature further reduces the possibility of an incorrec powder charge.

I'm still undecided as to whether it makes sense to upgrade. This thread has further confused me as it seems that many people that converted from the 550 to the 650 think it was a wise choice. Two of the main reasons were the auto-indexing and the casefeeder. As I mentioned to you on the telephone, the auto-indexing could make it a safer machine which I'm all for. Obviously, this isn't all that urgent as I have a functioning 550 but I am still mulling over the pro's and con's!

I appreciate all of your time and everyone's input.

Thanks,

AJ

[benos]

AJ,

Thanks for the additional input in this thread.

I think there are probably two types of reloaders. People that just want to reload a bunch of ammo to last them a large portion of the year in the minimum amount of time and those that reload as they need it.

That's a good point - and definitely one worth considering.

For anyone who's already replied and still feels like responding, or hasn't yet replied and has a solid amount of experience with both the 550 and the 650:

Which machine would you pick if you planned to load approx. 2000 rounds of 9mm, change calibers, then load 2000 rounds of 223, change calibers, then load 2000 rounds of 308, then repeat? And all of that done at a leisurely pace.

Thanks,

be

[ima45dv8]

AJ,

Thanks for the additional input in this thread.

I think there are probably two types of reloaders. People that just want to reload a bunch of ammo to last them a large portion of the year in the minimum amount of time and those that reload as they need it.

That's a good point - and definitely one worth considering.

For anyone who's already replied and still feels like responding, or hasn't yet replied and has a solid amount of experience with both the 550 and the 650:

Which machine would you pick if you planned to load approx. 2000 rounds of 9mm, change calibers, then load 2000 rounds of 223, change calibers, then load 2000 rounds of 308, then repeat? And all of that done at a leisurely pace.

Thanks,

be

Sincerely, I would choose a 1050 - not for any particular reason related to caliber changes. Good Lord willing and the river don't rise, I will never go back to pushing myself away from the bench to seat primers by feel for each round. All other arguements aside, the 1050 rules in the area of mechanically priming the cases to a uniform depth, each and every time. That and the swage in station 2, which negates all of those "which cases wouldn't you load" discussions make it the best value in a reloader.

Save a little longer, get the 1050 and never look back.

Edited to add: OK, I just reread your question and it looks like you asking which machine one would choose if only given the choice of a 550 or a 650. My enthusiam for my 1050s carried me away. :-)

Edited January 26, 2006 by ima45dv8

[XRe]

If speed were not the priority, I'd still pick the 550 If I needed to do 2k/ea and repeat that every couple of months, the 650 would be awful tempting - or if I had to set it up to where I needed to do 1000 rounds at a sitting.

If I needed that ammo budget per month, I'd probably do exactly as Mark is saying...

FWIW, I intend to own a 1050 someday to accompany my 550

[SF]

I started with a 550 in the mid 90s. Loaded a varity of handgun cartridges on it and also .308. Still have it, use it for .308 only. A good press to learn on.

Bought my 650 in 2001. Use if for .40 and .45. Pros and cons compared to the 550:

+auto indexing

+5th station (I use it for the powder check)

-complexity (more things that can and do go wrong, adjustment, etc)

I recently replaced just about all the plastic parts on my 650 because after 50k+ rounds, they were worn out and it was giving me fits. I'm going to replace these parts at standard intervals, now.

Recently acquired a Super 1050. Loving it. It's heavy duty, it makes wonderful sounds, it's so smooooooth.

Long-term I will buy another 1050 to have one setup for .40, one setup for 9mm, and to changeover to load .45 acp as needed.

[ima45dv8]

Long-term I will buy another 1050 to have one setup for .40, one setup for 9mm, and to changeover to load .45 acp as needed.

THIS is why I'm glad I was late seeing that ad for the awesome Open gun in the classifieds yesterday. I have never seriously considered buying an Open shooter, but the deal was soooo good I started calculating how I could acquire it.

Then I realized it would mean another 1050 to load .38 Super. Not that that would be a bad thing; just expensive. I can't help that my idea of the ideal caliber conversion is to walk 3 feet to the left or right and start cranking on the next handle.

(And I'm sure it wouldn't Brian's feelings to sell me another one.)

...Mark,

[old john]

AJ, I purchased a 550 from BE 3 years ago and thought I would never change. About 3 months ago I purchased a 650 and thought it was cool and much faster but not too smooth when loading full cases such as 9mm major, so I went back to the 550. I then ran up on a like new RL 1050 purchased it and smile every time I pass through my garage. It is wonderful. I did keep the 550 however since it is a great machine for 223 and other cases I run from time to time. If you can swing the extra dollars and load mostly one case the 1050 is great with a 550 back up. Old John

[anyracoon]

I did it backwards! I bought a 650 with several caliber conversions, tool heads,a couple of powder measures, shell feeder & shell plates. Last year I bought a 550 with several conversion kits, tool heads & powder measures. I like the 550 for load development and I use the 650 for large batches.

[dajarrel]

I have both. I use the 550 primarily for odd loads such as .38 wad cutter, .357 hunting loads, 45 loads for both revolver and carry.

I use the 650 to crank out the .40 S&W that I end up shooting about 12-15K of each year.

I've not done any rifle loads so I cannot comment on those.

The only advantage I have seen for the 550 is the ease of primer setups from small to large and back. the 650 is a bit more involved.

Separate tool heads including powder systems are the only way to go.

just my 2 cents worth

dj

[Newguy]

I did it the other way around. Went from a 650 with almost all the bells and whistles back to a 550B with the new casefeeder. The reason? I had a 550 for about five years and it ran flawlessly for thousands of rounds. If there was a problem, it took me a few minutes to clear it up. It's an easy machine to master. I moved up to the 650 because I wanted more speed.

I learned that speed is relative. For example, when I think about reloading speed, I estimate how much TOTAL time it takes to reload X number of rounds PLUS the time it takes to tinker with the machine to get it running right. That's what killed me on the 650. For one reason or another, it always seemed to require adjustment. The two problem areas were the priming system and the auto-indexing.

When it ran, the 650 was like a fast race horse, but at least for me, it was temperamental. Problems took me WAY longer to figure out and clear up (I'm sure my lack of mechanical ability was to blame) than on the 550. The progressive part of the 650 definitely makes it more complicated and temperamental compared to the manually indexed 550B. The trade off between the two machines is speed versus simplicity. Although the 550B casefeeder narrows the gap, it doesn't eliminate it. The auto-indexed 650 is still faster, but it's an individual preference whether someone wants to trade off 25% in speed for simplicity. (Reliability and simplicity go together for me.) For me, it's an easy decision.

[Rico567]

I had never owned a Dillon press before I bought my XL650. I fall into the category of someone whose annual reloading in a pistol caliber like 45 ACP probably doesn't come up to some 650 owners' weekly consumption. What I like to do is get my reloading done in the cold weather, and get it done fairly rapidly, because there are other things I'd rather be doing when it's nice (like shoot!). From this perspective, the 650 has been nearly an ideal machine for me.

However (and there's always "however"), there is no question that, for me, the XL650 is far harder to do caliber changes for than my previous progressives (Lee Pro 1000s). I have offset this to a degree buy purchasing two complete primer mechanisms, one for large and one for small primers, and also having two powder measures, one with the large bar installed, the other small. This speeds things up significantly when I want to switch calibers, and so it offsets the complex caliber change procedure. I have also expanded my stock of brass in the calibers I reload so I don't have to switch as often.

There's one final point, and I have read quite a bit of discussion about it. I have used both auto-indexing progressives and the other kind. The only "other kind" I own is a MEC Grabber in 12 ga., because it's not possible to do something like double-charge a shotgun shell and still get all the components in and crimp it. So- there's an automatic safety factor that doesn't exist with many pistol cases and modern powders. As "XRe" pointed out, earlier in this thread, you MUST have discipline and pay complete attention to the process if you're loading with something like a 550 that doesn't auto-index. As I described above, I'm not someone who loads every week, or sometimes every three months, so when it came time to buy the Dillon I knew that the productivity of the 550B would more than serve my needs. However, I saw no reason to risk a lapse that could result in a double-charge, and just bought the 650 instead. Is it POSSIBLE to double-charge using an auto-indexing press? Certainly, but it's far less likely.

Edited February 20, 2006 by Rico567

[NoTenX]

I started with a 400/450in early 80's kept my single stage presses for a couple of years upgraded to 550, got rid of all single stages and turrets replaced them with bonanza coax. I like having the simple 550 and being able to load everything else except the main comp pistol/rev cowboy cartridge that i and wife use several thousand per month on the 650 which is always set for. The bonanza coax is dragged to range for load development. glad i kept 550 after buying 650(two months ago)will change from 38spc to 45acp and 40sw after i get stock built up. After a head injury multitasking was a challenge but what i really lost was confidance in not messing up on the 550. Even modified one 550 toolhead to add a powder check and loading previously sized and primed cases. the auto indexer made all the difference and reloading is fun again and i feel safer.

Back to the original question, I would keep the 550 load 223 and 308 ,9mm. The 650 shines in large quanity pistol. for now the 550 will do and if he is just engaged he really does know what his goals may be and priorities will change. You may not be able to afford a 650 if you family expands

Edited March 20, 2006 by NoTenX