Swage/chamfer .38 Short Colt Starline brass?

[ysrracer]

Starline .38 Short Colt brass doesn't have a crimp, but after multiple (and multiple) firings, I've had to chamfer the primer pockets.

 

I load on a Dillon 750 with a bullet feeder and a case feeder, using Lee dies. 2.8gr of Clays behind 160gr coated bullet.

 

I was getting crushed Federal primers and brass shavings, when loading. At first I thought my press was out of alignment.

 

When I was a kid living in Arizona my buddy was married to Mike Dillon's daughter, so I called him. I completely tore down my press, and re aligned everything.

 

Still crushing primers and shaving brass. 

 

When I changed over to 9mm, no issues. Maybe it was the brass?

 

Yes, it was the brass.

 

I finally figured out that the primer pockets were getting smaller with firing.

 

After a few tries, I finally settled on chucking up a Lyman VLD inside chamfer tool in a drill, and chamfering every primer pocket.

 

I've spoke to a few other people, and this is now a know issue.

 

Here's the VLD tool.

.

 

Edited May 10 by ysrracer

[ysrracer]

This pin will just fit in a virgin .38 Short Colt Starline brass.

[ysrracer]

This is a virgin .38 Short Colt Starline brass rim.

.

[ysrracer]

This is a multiple time fired .38 Short Colt Starline brass rim. The rim is getting flattened by repeated firings, and the primer pocket is getting smaller.

.

[Farmer]

These come in real handy as they are go/no-go
https://ballistictools.com/store/original/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

 

I also noticed that head swelling on some much fired 45 auto brass. They wouldn’t fit in the shell holder any more. 

Edited May 10 by Farmer
Added

[Bill Sahlberg]

These have been reloaded many many times since I bought them in 1997, never experienced your troubles loading on my 650...

[dannyd]

USB Skil drill with 3/8 inch adapter, using 8-32 nuts on the tools.

 

Edited May 10 by dannyd

[Dr. Phil]

I have had the same problem with 38 Special cases. Both in FC and Starline. Mostly Starline.

I bought a prime pocket swager and did them. After swaging they are fine.

I always kind of felt that it was the case heads being pushed in or mushroomed from the primers being seated so firm. 

Have only had a few with the 9mm so when I find one I load it, shoot it and toss it.

It only seems to happen on my LNL for some reason.

[pyrrhic3gun]

I notice Swageit.com has a swaging block that mounts to a Dillon 750.  Kind of pricey, but looks like it works on their video.  UPC 696952035858

[ysrracer]

4 hours ago, Farmer said:

These come in real handy as they are go/no-go
https://ballistictools.com/store/original/small-and-large-primer-pocket-gauges

 

I also noticed that head swelling on some much fired 45 auto brass. They wouldn’t fit in the shell holder any more. 

 

The only issue with a go/no-go gauge is, it's more trouble to check them all, then to just chamfer them all.

 

You still have to de prime every one, then check every one.

[Farmer]

Just now, ysrracer said:

 

The only issue with a go/no-go gauge is, it's more trouble to check them all, then to just chamfer them all.

 

You still have to de prime every one, then check every one.

Yes but it gives you the option to be able to check the stray one that occasionally gives you trouble and then repair them. How many mashed primers and time did you waste until you figured out what the problem was?

[ysrracer]

18 minutes ago, Farmer said:

Yes but it gives you the option to be able to check the stray one that occasionally gives you trouble and then repair them. How many mashed primers and time did you waste until you figured out what the problem was?

 

Oh, at least a hundred maybe two. And that was a few years ago when primers were $120 a thousand.

 

A cheap bastage like me was crying.

[pskys2]

When loading on my 550 I never noticed anything, and I have 38 short colt brass from 2013 mixed into my used practice brass.  But I quit using my 550 for most of my loading in 2019.

 

I do notice that the more fired brass seems to swell, or deform?, in the case head at the extractor groove and then cause sticky insertion with moon clips.

 

As for the primer pocket shrinking I'd hazard that it's the very top of the pocket and now that I load on a 1050 with a primer pocket swager it's not an issue that shows up.

 

I guess there is a limit to our brass life!

[Joe4d]

go to a slower powder,,, Clays and a 160 making  125-130 pf with short colt brass? out of a revolver ?  Pressure has to be sky high. 

[pskys2]

2 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

go to a slower powder,,, Clays and a 160 making  125-130 pf with short colt brass? out of a revolver ?  Pressure has to be sky high. 

No, it's a very popular load.  I've been up to 145 pf without pressure signs.

[ysrracer]

17 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

go to a slower powder,,, Clays and a 160 making  125-130 pf with short colt brass? out of a revolver ?  Pressure has to be sky high. 

 

It's a pretty poplar load 3gr(ish) of Clays, behind a 160gr coated bullet.

 

Since Clays has been unobtainable for the last few years, I'll be switching to Sport Pistol in 20 pounds

[gargoil66]

Got to say guys, that it would be a serious brass shortage if I ever took a reamer to the primer pocket of pistol brass.  Never needed it for pistol or rifle unless it had a military crimp. 

 

When I feel the primer doesn't want to seat on my LNL AP, I give the brass a turn in the shell holder and normally the primer will go right in.

 

I have never had pistol brass, including magnum loads, somehow peen the primer pocket inwards.  It has always been outwards, thus causing the 'primer falling out of the brass' effect.  

 

I know some rifle shooters who have a tool that tightens the primer pocket when they loosen up.  To me, that means the load was either way too hot or the shooter shot the brass way too much. 

 

GG

 

 

[Joe4d]

5 hours ago, pskys2 said:

No, it's a very popular load.  I've been up to 145 pf without pressure signs.

By the time visible signs are present you are already way way up there.. I didnt die, isnt really a good test method.  I have followed some of YS Racers loads and I dont really agree,,,  Id wouldnt stand to the side. LOL,,, We can meet in parking lot later.
I looked at load manuals and did some math.. No thanks on powders that fast in 38 SC. 

Edited May 11 by Joe4d

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

By the time visible signs are present you are already way way up there.. I didnt die, isnt really a good test method.  I have followed some of YS Racers loads and I dont really agree,,,  Id wouldnt stand to the side. LOL,,, We can meet in parking lot later.
I looked at load manuals and did some math.. No thanks on powders that fast in 38 SC. 

 

NEVER DEVIATE FROM MANUFACTURER'S PUBLISHED LOAD DATA.

[dannyd]

Considering Star 38 short cases are just short 357 magnum cases, doing that to the primer pockets is definitely putting some strange on them.

[Squirrel45]

10 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

It's a pretty poplar load 3gr(ish) of Clays, behind a 160gr coated bullet.

 

Since Clays has been unobtainable for the last few years, I'll be switching to Sport Pistol in 20 pounds

It's funny that you mentioned this topic. I run shorts exclusively for SCSA, 125g going about 650'. The amount of powder I use is actually BELOW published data. The reason I  say this is that I too am experiencing crushed primers on occasion. All starline, all were new to start. None ever were subjected to "high" pressure. That said I'm putting the swage-it on my 550 to square things up. 

[Dr. Phil]

Looking back several years now, the cases I had problems with were almost all Starline also. I bought 1K new and my 38 Special loads were running 130 PF with Winchester 231. All Federal primers.

Strange problem for sure.

No trouble with my 9mm revolvers. Of course, no Starline either.

[Tom Freeman]

Sounds like a perfect excuse to buy a 1050 or an 1100.

[ysrracer]

43 minutes ago, Tom Freeman said:

Sounds like a perfect excuse to buy a 1050 or an 1100.

 

I like the cut of your jibb, mister.

 

(Full disclosure, I have no idea what a jibb is)

[Farmer]

Just throwing this out there but could it be the way the moon clips fit? I mean could they be pushing up on the outside edges more or the SL brass has a bit of a bevel that eventually swages out? Do the moons fit differently on the multi-fired cases than new ones?