What to do to a 929

[pskys2]

19 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Guys:

 

This has been the thing that I still don't understand.  People complain about the 929 but is it mechanically different than a 627 or is it the 9mm cartridge?

 

Guys shooting minor loads out of 627's don't seem to have the same problems.

 

GG

 

 

Yes we do, it's an issue with all revolvers to one degree or the other.

Even 44 caliber 240 lrn with crimp groove would back out when shooting major, it would take a couple of cylinders to do say 10 times.

Some bullets are worse than others, 

Jacketed with a cannelure about the same as the 44's.

Jacketed & Plated without a cannelure can start walking out in as few as one cylinder.  Most times it's only a few thousands, but especially with plated you can see as it starts to leave the crimp groove left by the crimping.

You can't crimp deep enough to totally eliminate it either, going too heavy on a Jacketed will likely buckle the case, on a plated you can pierce the plating leading to separation.  Actually had that happen at the 2008 USPSA Revolver Nationals, 2 shots left 3 bullet holes in the target and I felt the difference, to the point I hesitated expecting the RO to stop me but he didn't and I continued on.  Cliff and I even checked my barrel to make sure it wasn't bulged.

The heavier the bullet the worse the issue.  

Lead or Coated seem to be affected the least and the long bearing surface on the 145+ I use means they won't back out and tie up the cylinder.

Now the 9mm being a tapered case is one I've not used.  I can surmise the taper can actually incrementally increase the speed of the non-fired cases upon firing and enhance pull out.  Combined with factory rounds usually being jacketed & short bearing surface bullets and designed to resist push in on feeding can actually be a perfect storm leading to some of the reports.

Some factory loads used to have a sealant on the jacketed bullets that may help, but don't know if anyone does that anymore.    The case wall thickness can also have an effect.  In decades past some 38 super brass was too thin and wouldn't grip bullets and we avoided them.

My suggestion for 9mm is to use a single brand of brass, for competition at least don't use Starline or range brass, seems I heard Federal is good.  Then load 145+ grain bullets, loaded to a length that won't bulge a case yet leaves as much bearing surface as possible to be gripped by the case.  Taper Crimp very tight, say under .370".  Do all of those and you shouldn't have to worry about a gun being tied up in a cylinder full.   Note I usually take the extra 38 short colt rounds from moon clips and use them for practice.

Short answer you can't expect good results from your 9mm semi-auto ammo and most factory rounds, to get the most reliable rounds you will need to take extra efforts at handloading.

And the 929 is most accurate with .358" lead/coated bullets or .357" jacketed, though I've had decent luck with some .355" jacketed in my 627's just depends on manufacturer.  The barrels on both the 627 and 929 have the same bore dimensions.

Edited December 25, 2023 by pskys2

[pskys2]

13 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

I've done all that and more, nothing short of gluing the bullets in the cases. I'm down to .375" crimp, soon to be .370", way more crimp than I could imagine.

I like a taper crimp of .370, or less, on my 38 short colts with .358" bullets.  Even go to .370"+ on my 9mm semi auto loads with no loss of accuracy.

[ysrracer]

OP, if you use 9mm Federal brass, a Lee U die, and a Bayou Bullets 160gr RN and you still get creep, it's you.

 

I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds with the above, without any creep.

 

I'm using an OAL of 1.190.

[tomjerry1]

Seems like I have finally reached a point of controlling bullets walking out, .357 bullet, 147gr BB, 1.15 oal, .375 crimp, win brass and good accuracy. I have been on this, and other forums for two years trying to figure this out. 

[ysrracer]

1 minute ago, tomjerry1 said:

Seems like I have finally reached a point of controlling bullets walking out, .357 bullet, 147gr BB, 1.15 oal, .375 crimp, win brass and good accuracy. I have been on this, and other forums for two years trying to figure this out. 

 

I not sure what you figured out, that's a standard load for a lot of us.

 

I'm not sure why you were having issues. Glad you got it handled.

[tomjerry1]

It's been a bi@#ch, but, crimp the ever loving s*#t out of it. I truly understand why there are so few revolver shooters.

[gargoil66]

11 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

It's been a bi@#ch, but, crimp the ever loving s*#t out of it. I truly understand why there are so few revolver shooters.

 

 

TJ1:

 

Nothing more or less than a pistol or rifle.  Not enough neck tension with a pistol or rifle and the bullet will do the same thing.  Only difference is you have a magazine to stop it from coming out.  Gets a bit more dodgy when the round has to hit a feed ramp then stop abruptly in the chamber.  

 

I think that a guy needs to find a brand of brass that works and stay with it.

 

GG

 

 

 

 

[MikeyScuba]

Creeping was the first issue I figured out.  Wasn’t until I had our guns done by a competent smith (Olhasso) did they fire reliably.  Light strikes were the issues I was having.  And one day while wacking out rounds with light strikes I noticed they were all WIN and Federal.  The blazer were all going bang.

 

just now I realized I take the unshot rounds out of match moons, tumble to clean and put them back in moons for match’s or practice.  And I have never had a creep on me.

 

yrsracer has the formula. I think a u-die  is essential 

[ysrracer]

3 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

 

yrsracer has the formula. I think a u-die  is essential 

 

Think of a 929 like a racecar.

 

Most people can't just hop in a NASCAR Sprint Cup car and drive down to the grocery store.

 

Same thing with a 929. It's pretty useless out of the box.

 

Fun fact, what's "racecar" spelled backwards?

[Vic]

It's the Indian, not the arrow. 

[NoSteel]

On 12/25/2023 at 5:56 PM, ysrracer said:

OP, if you use 9mm Federal brass, a Lee U die, and a Bayou Bullets 160gr RN and you still get creep, it's you.

 

I've loaded tens of thousands of rounds with the above, without any creep.

 

I'm using an OAL of 1.190.

I run the same with Winchester brass and never had a creep issue. Running a .358 bullet is pretty tight when using a U-die so creep just doesn’t exist.

Edited December 27, 2023 by NoSteel

[IHAVEGAS]

54 minutes ago, NoSteel said:

I run the same with Winchester brass and never had a creep issue. Running a .358 bullet is pretty tight when using a U-die so creep just doesn’t exist.

 

I'm wondering if the U-die actually does anything more than make resizing more difficult in this particular situation. 0.358 bullets are already oversized for 9mm brass. 

 

Have you experimented with running everything the same except using a standard sizing die? 

 

 

[ysrracer]

24 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I'm wondering if the U-die actually does anything more than make resizing more difficult in this particular situation. 0.358 bullets are already oversized for 9mm brass. 

 

Have you experimented with running everything the same except using a standard sizing die? 

 

 

 

No, but my understanding is a U die is just .001 undersized.

[NoSteel]

6 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

I'm wondering if the U-die actually does anything more than make resizing more difficult in this particular situation. 0.358 bullets are already oversized for 9mm brass. 

 

Have you experimented with running everything the same except using a standard sizing die? 

 

 

I’ve run a U die for 9mm as a standard for all 9mm since I started reloading many years ago.  As noted it is only .001” undersized and because it works never had reason to switch. On my 929 when I switched to .358 bayou’s I was worried I may be to tight a crimp but it has not been an issue and does not cut the coating.

[pyrrhic3gun]

OK, I'll add my 2 cents worth.  I just grabbed a handful of my sized 9mm brass and ran some pin gauges in them.  I'm using the U-die.  The ranged from .346" to .348" ID varying by headstamp.

I think whoever it was that cautioned about the powder funnel expanding the brass is correct.

I turn my powder funnels on a lathe to make sure they're not affecting the neck tension.

Just measured my funnel with a micrometer and came up with .343", so you can see it's not expanding my brass.  Now, the brass looks a little bulged when loaded (like the snake that just ate a mouse), but no creep to speak of, since it's really grabbing the bullet.  After a match, I measure the overall length of the rounds that are left in full-moon clips and reseat the ones that are .005" longer than I loaded them.  There aren't many, maybe 3 to 5 per 100 fired.  But definitely none that are anywhere close to disassembling themselves in the gun.

[tomjerry1]

I am using all the above tooling on my set-up, the only thing I have recently changed, is I now have the DAA die that sets the O.A.L. and crimp, crimp is .375 as stated above. The die is made for DAA by Lee, worked this last weekend, and will try again this weekend, hopefully I finally got a handle on the monster.

[ysrracer]

58 minutes ago, pyrrhic3gun said:

OK, I'll add my 2 cents worth.  I just grabbed a handful of my sized 9mm brass and ran some pin gauges in them.  I'm using the U-die.  The ranged from .346" to .348" ID varying by headstamp.

I think whoever it was that cautioned about the powder funnel expanding the brass is correct.

I turn my powder funnels on a lathe to make sure they're not affecting the neck tension.

Just measured my funnel with a micrometer and came up with .343", so you can see it's not expanding my brass.  Now, the brass looks a little bulged when loaded (like the snake that just ate a mouse), but no creep to speak of, since it's really grabbing the bullet.  After a match, I measure the overall length of the rounds that are left in full-moon clips and reseat the ones that are .005" longer than I loaded them.  There aren't many, maybe 3 to 5 per 100 fired.  But definitely none that are anywhere close to disassembling themselves in the gun.

 

I bought a UniqueTek powder funnel (for my Dillon 750) that completely defeats the idea of a U die.

 

The UniqueTek powder funnel has an outside diameter of .358. It's completely useless. There was no neck tension at all.

[ysrracer]

I'll add, I never measure the crimp. I just turn down the knob, load a few, pull one of the bullets, look at the crimp.

 

I'm looking for a slight indentation all the way around.

 

This is a little too heavy.

.

[tomjerry1]

ysrracer, I have tried three different powder funnels, undersize die, two different set of dies, lee factory crimp die, and the DAA O.A.L/Crimp die, .355, .356, .357 bullets (coated, plated), win, federal, blazer and other brass. My final, for now, set-up is undersize die, a.355 powder drop, DAA O.A.L/Crimp die. 1.55"oal, win brass, .375 crimp, fed spp, 3.3gr Vectan 9.5. Things are

behaving right now, so best left alone until something changes.

[gargoil66]

11 hours ago, tomjerry1 said:

I am using all the above tooling on my set-up, the only thing I have recently changed, is I now have the DAA die that sets the O.A.L. and crimp, crimp is .375 as stated above. The die is made for DAA by Lee, worked this last weekend, and will try again this weekend, hopefully I finally got a handle on the monster.

TJ1:

 

I have a DAA (Lee) crimp die too.  They work, although I think I prefer a Dillon Taper Crimp die.  That DAA die is touchy to set.

 

GG

[IHAVEGAS]

15 hours ago, NoSteel said:

I’ve run a U die for 9mm as a standard for all 9mm since I started reloading many years ago.  As noted it is only .001” undersized and because it works never had reason to switch. On my 929 when I switched to .358 bayou’s I was worried I may be to tight a crimp but it has not been an issue and does not cut the coating.

 

My only issue with the U-die is just that I am lazy perhaps. I tend to load bullets in batches of 3-600 and can definitely tell that the U-die takes a little more elbow grease. I used it before because it cut down on my reloaded rounds that wouldn't case gauge, I'm roll sizing now which accomplishes the same task. 

 

It could be that the U-die reduces creeping even with 0.358 bullets, just don't know and don't know of anyone who has tested things by keeping everything but the sizing die the same. 

[Joe4d]

12 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I'll add, I never measure the crimp. I just turn down the knob, load a few, pull one of the bullets, look at the crimp.

 

I'm looking for a slight indentation all the way around.

 

This is a little too heavy.

.

Looks good to me,, kinda what I did.. have never miked a crimp,, crimp till when I can push bullet against the bench it doesnt move,,, call it good. When I went to coated I did the above after reading about cutting the coatings.
I traded my 929 after about a month, didnt like how nose heavy it was or that I couldnt just buy ammo for it.  although maybe I shoulda kept it and got used to it.. Pretty happy with the 627 I got in trade though.
Some where I did a thread on ammo for it.. Bulk reloads I had for a Hipower and XDM ran fine in it.. Just range brass, 125 gr .356 FMJ's loaded with RCBS size, regular dillon 9mm expander, rcbs seat, and Lee FCD, crimped till passed push test.
Did a shoot 6 unload measure test on the 929.
My reloads worked fine little to no creep.
Blazer 124's walked out and left bullet and spilled powder in cylinder.
remington 147 FN had slight movement, but never enough to cause an issue, shot a couple hundred of these.
LAX 135 gr HP reloads, bit more creep, no issues, howver maybe only trust for practice.. These are loaded with .356 bullets, and come to think of it way coating on the remingtons looked they could be .356 coated as well vs a true fmj.
Guess point being if you are in a pinch and need ammo go with the bulk remington 147's
I did need different moonclips for different loads. If I kept the gun Id go all remington brass.

[ysrracer]

So three pages on how to get a 929 to run correctly

 

Here's what I did to get my 627 to run correctly.

 

1. Bought the gun

2. Had a trigger job by the gray ghost in Phoenix

3. Bought 1000 Starline .38 Short Colt brass

4. Bought 1000 Bayou Bullets 160gr RN. bullets 

5. Pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew, 'merica

 

Hey, I just saved you guys three pages of reading, you're welcome.

 

[Joe4d]

6 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

So three pages on how to get a 929 to run correctly

 

Here's what I did to get my 627 to run correctly.

 

1. Bought the gun

2. Had a trigger job by the gray ghost in Phoenix

3. Bought 1000 Starline .38 Short Colt brass

4. Bought 1000 Bayou Bullets 160gr RN. bullets 

5. Pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew, 'merica

 

Hey, I just saved you guys three pages of reading, you're welcome.

 

pretty much,,,, although I had some cases of commercial reload 38 specials.
About only issue I had was moon clips,  I got stainless for the starline so I could tell them apart,, Use blued for other brands.. I scored about 1000 mixed remington and magtech 38 short colt once fired,,  I ended up keeping them sperate from the stairline.. Starline for the 8 shot,, the others for my 7 shot...  I may just end up shooting the 7 shot this year. or the 617,  

[ysrracer]

>>What to do to a 929 

 

I'll take, what is sell it and buy a 627, for $200 Alex.