Chuck_d's Gone

[SteveZ]

So Nolan makes a couple off color jokes....decides he's had enough and bails....which causes great forum uproar.

Chuck_d (and everyone else who shoots L10 for that matter) get's accused of trying to "hide" from competition and then is told that he should move from his home state so he can own hi-cap magazines and shoot Limited.

No New Divisions

....and no one really seems to care!

Another one of my good friends has recently bailed from the forum out of disgust of the way things have been going around here (perhaps you've noticed his absense too! No?).

I guess in the eyes of some individuals (who apparently must be lacking something in life)...I must be really guilty of hiding because I shoot Limited 10 in a state where I could shoot Limited....but do it with a single stack gun because I like them.

Maybe its time I begin to reconsider my presense also

Edited December 22, 2005 by SteveZ

[John Heiter]

Steve,

Thanks for bringing that one up. I'm on this forum all the time and I somehow missed all that. I guess since the majority of it occurred in one 12 hr. period last night, it's not completely shocking that I missed it. Maybe some of the mods did too but it looks like it is locked now. Lots of folks seem to be using the "atomic option" these days when it comes to forum disagreements. Hope to see both you and Chuck around in the future.

John

[JD45]

I don't have the slightest clue WTF is going on, but I wish everyone would stay and keep posting.

There is no reason why the forum can't be as much fun as it was around 2003-2004.

I can't think of anyone that ever left that I don't miss. Even if you don't agree with them, you usually end up with an education and quality entertainment.

[Merlin Orr]

.....I can't think of anyone that ever left that I don't miss. Even if you don't agree with them, you usually end up with an education and quality entertainment.

Man, if that ain't the truth! It is hard for me to understand why anyone would feel that a difference in philosophies should warrant a personal attack. Even if you don't name names - the intent and direction of this type of response is clear. AND it is clearly bullshit.

The Mods can't do it. Damned if they do this and they are heavy handed if they do that.

We all need to think a little about our posts before we press the "Add Reply."

IMHO

[Loves2Shoot]

Sad that people leave because they are sensitive to what seem like personal attacks. Everyone has an opinion and if someone doesn't agree with something I believe true, then it is up to me to evaluate if their opinion has validity, if not I tend to think there is not much value to stew on it.

A forum isn't the easiest place to communicate for sure.

A few thing that I think are true that make forum sifting easier are:

1. Divisions will always make someone feel slighted.

2. IDPA/IPSC are not perfect or training for "operators" they are sports that are as fun as YOU make them.

3. Your favorite gear/gunsmith/calier is the best (until it breaks/malfunctions/takes a vacation)

4. There are sandbaggers all over the place, so where you finish in your class means squat, but lots of people like the way it feels.

5. This sport is a give what you get back sport, so if someone is a selfish participant then I have no use sharing with them.

6. Nationals is always better in your backyard (side of the country.)

7. Anti gun states SUCK, but that doesn't mean the people that live there do.

8. You can shoot just as good with a decence stock gun in everything except open as you can with a whiz bang $3k "race" gun (Dave Sevigny is living proof) but there is high cool factor that is worth it to many.

9. Technique is only as good as your mind is to making yourself use it when the buzzers sounds.

10. If ain't fun, stop doing it, if you learned something, make sure you pass it on.

Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes, Merry Christams!

[JRBean]

This is getting a bit ridiculus. I don't see what all the fuss is about. Someone makes a general statement about a topic and it suddenly becomes a personal attack. If you are that thin skinned or that sensitive maybe a public forum is not the right place for you. We all know what sandbagging is and most probably know someone who does it. It is usually done in a certain class but it can take place across divisions. The word sandbagging was simply phrased a different way in the other topic. Unless you are guilty of the statements in the other thread get over it and grow up. I'm sorry if this is not within the spirit of the forum but things are getting a bit silly around here. Now everybody be nice and lets all try to get along.

Merry Christmas!!!!!

Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes, Merry Christams!

I don't like that other people type faster than I do and beat me to my point. Not to mention he stole my closing also. Guess I'll just take my keyboard and leave.

[SteveZ]

The point I was trying to make...was that Nolan announces that he's leaving...and people try to pull him back in. Chuck_D announces he's leaving...and only Merlin Orr says anything trying to dissuade him. Regardless of the reasons that Chuck_D has decided to bail....people feel its ok to accuse a group of shooters of something.

I've been accused of skirting competition before because I shoot L10 and don't care to shoot Limited (I like skinny guns thank you). The underlying problem as I see it (and many of you probably don't believe this) is that L10 is fighting for its survival with the adoption of SSD and comments eluding to the effect that L10 is just a place for sandbaggers doesn't help matters at all.....if enough people keep saying it (regardless of its validity)....then enough people will buy into the belief that L10 is a problem.

You can call me a "hider" all you want...I don't care....but don't say anything about my division.......or I'll have to come and tie a half-hitch in your A**!

Now what about trying to get Chuck_D to stay?

Oh yes...and Merry Christmas (notice I didn't say happy holidays or seasons greetings....I don't buy into all the pc crap...it's Christmas and I'm calling it Christmas!!!) to all of you!

Edited December 22, 2005 by SteveZ

[ima45dv8]

Steve, for what it's worth, I PM'd Chuck within 10 minutes of him posting that he was leaving and told him "Don't Do It!'

I don't know Chuck personally, except from reading his posts on this forum for a few years. As with so many people here I respect his opinions and the way in which he expresses his beliefs. The forum will survive if he doesn't return, but will be diminished by his absence.

...Mark

[shred]

People come and go, some announce it, some don't. If they were active forum members, they'll be missed. If they left (and weren't thrown off), they're welcome back anytime in my book, be it 5 minutes, 5 months or 5 years. Sometimes making a fuss about it only makes it harder for them to come back if they change their mind.

[John Baier]

I have over the few years that I have been here have learned alot from all of you. I truly hate to see anyone leave. So Chuck If you're out there "don't Leave bro"

Plus I also love shooting single stack in L10

[spook]

Man! I don't have enough time to read everything, so I missed this whole thing about Chuck actually wanting to leave. Chuck is definately one of the good guys. If you read this Chuck, please stay man!

Lots of people have contemplated leaving once or twice, but the onces who did are still missed here

[Bruce]

I missed the thread where he said he was leaving. I always enjoyed his posts, and hope he changes his mind.

Comments about ducking competition are not a positive way to address an issue, in my opinion. Shooting sports are a game. How many folks make a full-time living just competing in pistol shooting? Bet you could put them all in a VW bug and still have room for luggage, your dog and a hitch-hiker or 3.

I hope Chuck returns to the site after taking a break to clear his head. He is missed...as are all that leave.

[JFD]

L-10 shooters have been clearly insulted repeatedly over the last few days. That the threads continue with moderators posting in them indicates "official" acceptance of this behavior.

That could turn some people off.

I think the staff here tries to moderate lightly, trusting the members to not drop to the level of the past few days. When they realized that was not going to be the case, the threads were locked. Damned if you do and damned if you don't seems to be the rule of moderator life (I'm a mod at 1911.com), and I'm not complaining.

Personally speaking, I've NOT hit the "reply" button many times this week.

Merlin Orr was the only member trying to dissuade Chuck_D on that thread probably because it was locked before anyone else could respond. I hate to see anyone leave, but "please don't go" posts are just not my thing.

[shred]

Thanks JFD, most of the mods aren't mind-readers (at least I'm not) and frequently miss things others pick up on (at least I do), so if you see something objectionable, pop a PM to a handy member of the mod staff and let them know.

[JFD]

I know how hard the moderator job can be. I assume you're getting the same salary I'm getting ($0)

I didn't pick up on how bad the "L-10 shooters are lowlifes" threads were getting until it was too late. Seemed like nothing more than the same BS as always.

About time I switched to Limited and thought I could quit worrying about the eventual demise or ruination of L-10, my wife started shooting L-10 with my SS Kimber and Ghost holster. Now I have to find out who exactly she's "hiding from"

[raz-0]

10. If ain't fun, stop doing it, if you learned something, make sure you pass it on.

Hope I didn't step on anyone's toes, Merry Christams!

I've been avoiding the L10, SS, etc. divison threads out of respect for the wishes of the folks(s) running the forum. It's turned into a holy war, and they have a point.

I don't like to see anyone go who contributes, so to those folks who have felt they needed to leave lately, I hope you all decide to make it just a vacation from the forums until they are a source of fun rather than stress.

To those folks making generally negative comments about the players of the sport rather than the rules. You might want to think twcie or three times about what you post. Ask yourself if you'd feel comfortable saying the same thing to a new shooter who showed up at your local match that you never met before. If the answer is probably not, you might want to reconsider what you are saying or how you say it. I know that, in my opinion, there's been a couple bombs dropped of late that I would think twice about dropping on my shooting buddies to bust their chops much less total strangers. I've seen most of the holy war topics come up locally face to face, and it doesn't get nearly as mean as it has lately on this board. (actually it doesn't get mean at all that I can recall)

Bring at least as good an attitude to the forums as you bring to the range.

I could go on about this forever, so I'll make a point not to.

Merry Christmas right back at you and for anyone else who happens to wander by.

[Ron Ankeny]

and only Merlin Orr says anything trying to dissuade him.

I too PM'd Chuck immediately upon his departure. Life is full of choices and if Chuck want's to go, that's his choice. I guess what a bunch of folks around here don't understand is the combative, abrasive, pot stirring attitudes of some of the "posters" is just getting tiresome. Thick skin should not be a prerequsite to visiting this forum.

[Nolan]

Thick skin should not be a prerequsite to visiting this forum.

Thanks Ron, I resemble that remark!

Fortunately, this forum doesn't require an asbestos suit as most other forums do. I seriously hope Chuck reconsiders his decision to leave. I did and I'm really glad that I did.

Chuck just slap on some SPF50 sunscreen, take a deep breath and Stand By!

Beep!

Nolan

[BigDave]

It is too bad that Chuck_D decided to part. I like him. But, it is his choice so let's leave it at that.

Folks, if you're not happy how the mods police this place here's my advice: police yourself first. We are all adults (at least in terms of age), right? We're all supposed to have read, know and follow the guidelines. If you can't, don't post. Simple. If someone is violating a guideline - call them on it. That doesn't mean go running to a mod, just point it out and leave the thread.

[Bigbadaboom]

I read the opening post in that thread when it was started and decided that I did't want the negative input of reading any further.

I'm not a moderater on this forum so I don't care now "Heavy Handed" some may think my opinions seem but this is not a "Public forum". This is B.E.'s forum which is open to the public as long as B.E. wishes it to be. B.E. made/makes rules in order to avoid this type of negative, offending blather and I agree with his rules. I personally wish Chuck D the best no matter what decision he makes regarding this forum in the matter of staying or going but his point is 100% accurate. After going back and reading that entire thread it was totally un-called for and violated forum rules IMHO. I do not believe that someones post count, IPSC/USPSA class or any other criteria should exclude them from abiding by said rules and if they violate the rules then they should be delt with accordingly.

As I stated, I am not a moderater here and this is just my opinion on the matter but I think Chuck D and others who were/are offended by the comments made in that thread are owed an apology.

To me, it looks like narrow minds allowing a few bad apples (division sand baggers) to spoil the whole bunch and making assumptions and generalizing issues that should not be generalized.

Now let's get on to "POSITIVE INPUT".

Edited December 23, 2005 by Bigbadaboom

[GeorgeInNePa]

I'm sorry, but if you're offended by something you read on an internet message forum, something that's not obscene just someonelse's opinion, then you really need to ask yourself, "what's wrong with me?".

[Bigbadaboom]

I'm sorry, but if you're offended by something you read on an internet message forum, something that's not obscene just someonelse's opinion, then you really need to ask yourself, "what's wrong with me?".

It's not about what offends someone. It's about following the rules of THIS forum. There's other forums out ther where this kind of stuff is allowed so I say if you wish to participate in that banter then join one of those. This is a place for Learning not insulting and degrading whole groups of people because of the division they shoot in. In this forum offending others with disregard is not allowed rather you like it or not.

Here, read this again paying close attention to the words in bold print;

Posting Guidelines

Attitude

Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. Please – no antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones.

Please do not post offensive material. If you wouldn't want your 10 year-old to read it, please don't post it. If in doubt about your post's content, please PM a Moderator before posting.

Intent

This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged.

Pictures

Pictures are not different from posts. If it's even borderline offensive, or could be construed to be offensive, please do not post it or use it as an Avatar.

• Please do not post pictures in your signature. (It's a bandwidth issue.)
  
• Please do not post "dead-animal pictures."
  

Politics

Policy or political debates of any kind are not welcome.

Specifically including (but not limited to):

• USPSA vs IPSC
  
• IPSC vs IDPA
  
• STI vs SVI
  
• Limited 10 vs Limited Class
  
  
• This Division vs That Division
  
• This Government vs That Government
  

This is not a free speech issue. As a privately funded and collectively ran "information exchange," we have found that the emotional nature of political discussions weakens the informative impact of the Forum.

These rules put this forum ABOVE the others and it would be great if we could keep it that way.

[GeorgeInNePa]

I'm sorry, but if you're offended by something you read on an internet message forum, something that's not obscene just someonelse's opinion, then you really need to ask yourself, "what's wrong with me?".

It's not about what offends someone. It's about following the rules of THIS forum. There's other forums out ther where this kind of stuff is allowed so I say if you wish to participate in that banter then join one of those. This is a place for Learning not insulting and degrading whole groups of people because of the division they shoot in. In this forum offending others with disregard is not allowed rather you like it or not.

Here, read this again paying close attention to the words in bold print;

Posting Guidelines

Attitude

Please be polite. Or if not polite, at least respectful. Please – no antagonistic, offensive, or quarrelsome tones.

Please do not post offensive material. If you wouldn't want your 10 year-old to read it, please don't post it. If in doubt about your post's content, please PM a Moderator before posting.

Intent

This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged.

Pictures

Pictures are not different from posts. If it's even borderline offensive, or could be construed to be offensive, please do not post it or use it as an Avatar.

• Please do not post pictures in your signature. (It's a bandwidth issue.)
  
• Please do not post "dead-animal pictures."
  

Politics

Policy or political debates of any kind are not welcome.

Specifically including (but not limited to):

• USPSA vs IPSC
  
• IPSC vs IDPA
  
• STI vs SVI
  
• Limited 10 vs Limited Class
  
  
• This Division vs That Division
  
• This Government vs That Government
  

This is not a free speech issue. As a privately funded and collectively ran "information exchange," we have found that the emotional nature of political discussions weakens the informative impact of the Forum.

These rules put this forum ABOVE the others and it would be great if we could keep it that way.

Thank you. Did you see me give anyone a hard time in that thread, or did you just feel like preaching? Shoot whatever you want, I don't care. Don't shoot at all, again, I don't care.

As I stated, I am not a moderater here and this is just my opinion on the matter but I think Chuck D and others who were/are offended by the comments made in that thread are owed an apology.

I answered with:

I'm sorry, but if you're offended by something you read on an internet message forum, something that's not obscene just someonelse's opinion, then you really need to ask yourself, "what's wrong with me?".

[Ron Ankeny]

Getting tough to keep a straight face.

[lynn jones]

all i can say is "don't be gay sparky!"