Is it even worth getting into reloading 9mm minor right now?

[MikeyScuba]

…..precision delta…. Do these guys not know how to ship???

 

 Ibeji stretch wraps their boxes.  PD does not.  First ever order of 2 boxes 124.  One box is okish (corner broken but intact) the 2nd arrives 3 weeks later repackaged by USPS  in KY and only weighs 21lbs!  
 

only good outcome was Canada border agents were bored and spent 35 minutes tossing our truck coming back home from a US match yesterday.  The missing projectiles kept us under the $400 24hr tax exemption which they were DETERMINED to get me for since the tossing of the truck found diddly squat.  Aholes.

[dogtired]

Reloading my cost is slightly below best deals on commercial 115/124 9mm but that is not a 147gr 127 PF bullet.  Major is not even close.  As already stated, primers prices have blown the cost curve.  Components are starting to show up again, prices are "normalizing".

[Maximis228]

On 2/26/2023 at 11:59 AM, MikeyScuba said:

…..precision delta…. Do these guys not know how to ship???

 

 Ibeji stretch wraps their boxes.  PD does not.  First ever order of 2 boxes 124.  One box is okish (corner broken but intact) the 2nd arrives 3 weeks later repackaged by USPS  in KY and only weighs 21lbs!  
 

only good outcome was Canada border agents were bored and spent 35 minutes tossing our truck coming back home from a US match yesterday.  The missing projectiles kept us under the $400 24hr tax exemption which they were DETERMINED to get me for since the tossing of the truck found diddly squat.  Aholes.

 

Weird. I've purchased a few hundred thousand from them over the years and never had an issue with their packaging. Both shipping via USPS/Fedex/UPS or LTL on a pallet. I've always received them in 1000 round boxes sealed in plastic bags with the box secured with large stapples. I know they changed up their packaging to take advantage of new logistic pricing in recent years. 

[Farmer]

It doesn’t hurt to start gathering up components when you can find them at good prices. I save all brass that I find even if I don’t own that caliber as it can make for trading material or go for scrap. Someone once gave me 1500 9mm brass even though I didn’t own one at the time. I just rat-holed it and now it being used. If stored properly components last for a very long time and when you’re ready to start loading you’ll already have a good start. Don’t rule out yard sales, estate sales and clearance sales either. 

[MikeyScuba]

PD is replacing the missing bullets but exactly. Ok I guess but a few extra for my trouble would have been nice as I’ve got to pay $5 to pick up the package from the Box address.

 

might not bother again, I was only saving like 3c over the Toro jhp I use now.

[Joe4d]

20 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

 

Weird. I've purchased a few hundred thousand from them over the years and never had an issue with their packaging. Both shipping via USPS/Fedex/UPS or LTL on a pallet. I've always received them in 1000 round boxes sealed in plastic bags with the box secured with large stapples. I know they changed up their packaging to take advantage of new logistic pricing in recent years. 

guess I am old, My precision delta bullets all came in surplus GI 30 cal metal ammo cans. Think I still have a few,, because as mentioned 9mm hasnt been worth my time to load for a long long time.
I was going to teach my stepson to load 9mm as he was going to a gun show and mentioned he wanted a case of 9mm.  This has been about 8 years ago.
Locally lb of powder was $30 and primers were $40..  per k..  Like dang the blazer brass was $89 for 500 rounds.... umm just buy the loaded ammo

[Maximis228]

23 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

guess I am old, My precision delta bullets all came in surplus GI 30 cal metal ammo cans. Think I still have a few,, because as mentioned 9mm hasnt been worth my time to load for a long long time.
I was going to teach my stepson to load 9mm as he was going to a gun show and mentioned he wanted a case of 9mm.  This has been about 8 years ago.
Locally lb of powder was $30 and primers were $40..  per k..  Like dang the blazer brass was $89 for 500 rounds.... umm just buy the loaded ammo

 

Even at your quoted pricing, it would have saved you around 25% back then. Also around 8 years ago was another shortage. Political cycles and national tragedies lead to shortages at a moment's notice. Reloading hedges this cyclical issue. IMO it will always be worth it to load 9MM. 

[Joe4d]

2 hours ago, Maximis228 said:

 

Even at your quoted pricing, it would have saved you around 25% back then. Also around 8 years ago was another shortage. Political cycles and national tragedies lead to shortages at a moment's notice. Reloading hedges this cyclical issue. IMO it will always be worth it to load 9MM. 

you are leaving out price for bullets,, that was about $100  per k,,,  So figuring free brass,  $170 to reload ammo I could buy for 180 ?
Not saying not have the means to reload 9mm, but if I can buy loaded ammo for not much of a cost difference I am saving my components for a rainy day or the next shortage or to load ammo thats not available bulk and cheap.

[Maximis228]

59 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

you are leaving out price for bullets,, that was about $100  per k,,,  So figuring free brass,  $170 to reload ammo I could buy for 180 ?
Not saying not have the means to reload 9mm, but if I can buy loaded ammo for not much of a cost difference I am saving my components for a rainy day or the next shortage or to load ammo thats not available bulk and cheap.

 

8 years ago I was loading 9 minor for at or under $100/K. Not sure where you were buying stuff. 

[mmc45414]

I like to split up the buying also.  $275 worth of powder is 12k rounds.  $475 gets 5k primers, $270 gets 3k bullets, it never all hits at the same time. Enough of my buddies think differently so my 9mm brass is aways free. 

So around $0.21 for 147gn is not a huge savings, but probably $50-$75 compared 115gn.  Worth it?  Dunno, I just been doing it my whole life and enjoy using the cool tools I have accumulated.

[MuayThaiJJ]

I'm at 17cpr for 147gn loads right now, but that's because I am lazy and buy primed brass. If I primed my brass it would cost 11cpr. If 147gn factory ammo ever gets below 17cpr again I may stop loading or take a break

[Farmer]

On 12/2019 bought some Fed 115’s to try in a 250 pack for $35.  Their a little spicy but should have bought the whole pallet. Was about 1-2 cents less than it cost to load even using OF brass and old primers. 

[mmc45414]

Another issue with cost is that it seems to move faster with ammo than components.  When I say $0.21 that is based on buying everything today when in fact I am using powder I paid much less for but primers a little more for.  But I was loading at that cost when the cheapest ammo was $350 a case, so back then I was saving about $150, now that is down again I am still working from the same components and only saving about $50.  I have also been sitting here with enough powder and primers to load 8k-9k, the bullets are as expensive as the primer, but easier to find, so those can be ordered more as needed.  This is based on primers I pretty much bought at the peak, if I had bought nine cases of ammo when it peaked at $350 it will still be costing me $0.35 a shot. 

[motosapiens]

9 hours ago, Farmer said:

On 12/2019 bought some Fed 115’s to try in a 250 pack for $35.  Their a little spicy but should have bought the whole pallet. Was about 1-2 cents less than it cost to load even using OF brass and old primers. 

that's a reasonable price, but still .14/round. in 2019 i was paying less than 3cents for primers, less than 6 cents for bullets (i still have 35k of those bullets) and less than 1 cent for powder, so around 9 cents/round.

[Farmer]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

that's a reasonable price, but still .14/round. in 2019 i was paying less than 3cents for primers, less than 6 cents for bullets (i still have 35k of those bullets) and less than 1 cent for powder, so around 9 cents/round.

I had just started loading for 9 and didn’t have much brass or any bullets yet. Still had the 2 cent primers and .005 cent powder, but wasn’t aware of some of the discounts on bullets at the time. They had marked those down from $45 a box to $35 and in 4 months I could have sold them for the $45 pretty easily. 

[whan]

From someone who has never gotten into reloading over my 3 years and 25k rounds in the sport so far, I just haven't found it compelling enough to do for 9mm minor. Biggest advantage IMO is ability to tune loads and QC (if you trust yourself more than manufacturers, could be a negative if you suck at QC it seems). But there are decent factory loads out there that are on the softer side and reasonably inexpensive that work fine (Blazer 115 for example)

 

Yes, perhaps shooting 8-10k rounds a year, I can save 5 cents to 10 cents (max) or so per round, but that $500-$1k saving per year IMO isn't really worth the time and also mental energy to do it. That's excluding setup costs of some of the equipment as well. I think if you actually enjoy reloading or priorities around money/time are different, it's another story but I know I'd view it as just a chore personally

[Miranda]

ok... cost and value are often mixed...

 

reloading costs some amount   and you will spend some amount of time.

Most days the cost to reload is lower than boughten ammo.

Most days the ammo you get when you reload is better than purchased ammo.

 

That pretty much leaves you asking what am I getting for my time?

is that result worth the effort?

 

to hear the guys at cast boolits cover this...

If you buy anything past primers and powder you are spending bucks.

 

If I could find a way to get to the ranges they scrounge....

reloading could be profitable. sell the brass you don't want and range ingots

buy the primers and powder you want.

time = brass and lead and for some reason that makes it 'free'

 

so it is possible to reload for 10 cents a round...

me?  I think selling brass can buy all you may want to shoot...

 

I need to befriend a range owner...

 

miranda

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MuayThaiJJ]

Yeah and reloading is gratifying, like brewing your own beer.

[motosapiens]

11 hours ago, MuayThaiJJ said:

Yeah and reloading is gratifying, like brewing your own beer.

i do both, and I agree with you. I get that not everyone has the time and the interest to make it enjoyable, but both pursuits are enjoyable for me, as well as being very cost-effective.

 

I suspect that most of us originally started reloading with more expensive calibers like 40 or 45 or 38super. Once you are already reloading, adding 9mm to the mix is easy and inexpensive.

Edited March 2, 2023 by motosapiens

[MikeyScuba]

12 hours ago, MuayThaiJJ said:

Yeah and reloading is gratifying, like brewing your own beer.

It can be.  Just not when you've taken apart your Mark7 Revo for the 2nd or 3rd time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ok that was a year or so ago and she purrrrrs along nicely now but man was that frustrating.

[MuayThaiJJ]

1 minute ago, MikeyScuba said:

It can be.  Just not when you've taken apart your Mark7 Revo for the 2nd or 3rd time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ok that was a year or so ago and she purrrrrs along nicely now but man was that frustrating.

I hear ya, switching calibers is a bitch. I actually stopped brewing beer and switched to reloading a while ago lol

[motosapiens]

18 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

It can be.  Just not when you've taken apart your Mark7 Revo for the 2nd or 3rd time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Ok that was a year or so ago and she purrrrrs along nicely now but man was that frustrating.

I load old school, on a 550 and 650. I don't have any trouble keeping up with 2 people practicing and shooting every week. The more complicated machines and motor-drives just seem like a headache for someone that can easily spare an hour or two a week to pull handles while sipping a homebrew.

[MikeyScuba]

My issue was just like the 650, everything loosens up just as you get comfortable with the machine!

 

moto: really?  I'm in the same boat with my wife shooting but I got sick and tired of the handle.  Nothing like ripping along at 1950rpm

Edited March 2, 2023 by MikeyScuba

[Maximis228]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

I load old school, on a 550 and 650. I don't have any trouble keeping up with 2 people practicing and shooting every week. The more complicated machines and motor-drives just seem like a headache for someone that can easily spare an hour or two a week to pull handles while sipping a homebrew.

I swear I spend more time helping other local shooters tinker with their presses than I do even loading ammo for myself nowadays. 

 

Biggest issue is most people as of recent are buying a 1050/1100/Evo and then automate right out of the box. They have no mechanical inclinations, nor do they have any real reloading experience.

 

They expect "Hit start, machine go burrrrrr". But what they end up getting is"Hit start, f*#k this POS...". Then they run to forums/social to complain until someone spoon feeds them a solution. 

 

Once you understand how your machine functions, there should rarely be much tinkering, unless you have part breakages. I honestly get more questions about 550/650/750s than I do automated presses. 

[motosapiens]

5 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

moto: really?  I'm in the same boat with my wife shooting but I got sick and tired of the handle.  Nothing like ripping along at 1950rpm

perhaps my beer is better than yours......(i do make it myself). 

 

I leave everything set up all the time, so all i have to do is start pulling. I put some music on, or a sports event on my ipad, and typically load 100-200 rds at a time (15 mins on the 650, 25 mins on the 550), stopping every 25-35 rounds for a sip. I only have to do that 2-3 afternoons week to keep up with our shooting, and the press is right next to my desk, so I can also do it when I'm stuck on a boring conference call that doesn't require much input.