S&W M&P

[Middle Man]

FYI - M&P 40 10rd was just California DOJ approved

[firewalker]

thread drift......where can i buy fibre optic sights for my new m&p 9?

[Mousekiller]

Ok.. so what's the going price for the 9mm without the int lock.. and can they be had without the mag safety discon ?. Looking for a dealer that has them..

Thanks.

Jeff.

[sfinney]

Davidson's Gallery of guns has the 9mm with no lock, but it does have the mag safety..... $425 plus shipping and your dealer's markup.

[Attila]

Ok.. so what's the going price for the 9mm without the int lock.. and can they be had without the mag safety discon ?. Looking for a dealer that has them..

Thanks.

Jeff.

Including tax, mine was 495

[Kevin Kline]

That's a pretty good deal. Some of the dealers locally are really trying to stick it to buyers. One dealer had this big promo with S&W reps and sent out flyers and pamphlets on these supposed great deals. Their great deal was $550, plus tax anything else. You were basically at $600.

I know dealer/law enforcement is low $400's. That dealer is making a $125 profit per gun. I'll wait til the gun proves itself and I find a better deal.

[Mousekiller]

I saw 4 at the last gun show i was at, all .40's and all except one were in the mid $500's.. The one that was under was $469 and the dealer told me he could not sell it and doubted he would get anymore.. go figure..

That dealers web page has a link to davidson's on it, and it shows a price of $501 on it.. i have not contacted him yet, not sure what that price includes..

Jeff.

[raz-0]

Well, I actually picked up my M&P yesterday. It is genuines a version without the magazine disconnect form S&W. HAs a nice little warning on the side that says "caution: capable of being fired with magazine removed" right under the ejection port.

I can see why the trigger is getting mixed reveiws. Dry, it is going to feel more creepy than when lubed, and even when lubed, how much you feel the firing pin safety is going to depend on the finish of the trigger bar. The M&P I test-groped was REALLY smooth, mine is not so smooth. Added a little moly grease to the right spots, and dry fired the heck out of it, and it's a lot better.

After I get a few hundred rounds through it, I'll probably mess around with polishing stuff. Even getting it down to 4lbs would make me a happy camper.

BTW, for anyone with and M&P, does your model have that funky white thing in the trigger spring? Anyone know what it is or why it is there?

[RIIID]

Just to let some know that when the M&P came out it was almost $500.00 dealer cost. Two months later the price was dropped $50.00. Some dealers may still have some at the original pricing. I've got one of the higher priced units to do testing. I guess S&W relized that they were almost out pricing the gun for the targeted market.

Rich

[Rob Boudrie]

That's a pretty good deal. Some of the dealers locally are really trying to stick it to buyers. One dealer had this big promo with S&W reps and sent out flyers and pamphlets on these supposed great deals. Their great deal was $550, plus tax anything else. You were basically at $600.

I know dealer/law enforcement is low $400's. That dealer is making a $125 profit per gun. I'll wait til the gun proves itself and I find a better deal.

Law enforcement pricing does not have embedded FET; distributor pricing for civilian sales does.

[EricW]

I don't think it's FET. I am 98% positve that S&W dropped their prices....and by $50 because my price just dropped by that amount. (Coincidentally, I just checked last night before I read the latest posts here.)

It's a good thing, because it's putting them in the price point they need to be in to compete. Now they need to chop the prices on their mags so that they're selling on the street for sub $20 and they will be on their way.

E

[raz-0]

A picture of my new M&P, fancy warning and everything.

[dirtypool40]

BTW, for anyone with and M&P, does your model have that funky white thing in the trigger spring? Anyone know what it is or why it is there?

Just guessing, but the Smegma, had / has one in there to quell harmonics when the spring snaps. Is it a little wool plug? They ditched it in some "torture test" I read back in the 90's, basically washed it out when cleaning, and sure enough the trigger spring snapped in a few hundred more rounds.

You'd figure after that jank ass Smegma, S&W woulda learned a thing or two.

[Kevin Kline]

Hopefully for S&W's sake, it doesnt do the same thing as the Sigma. I think Smith might be back in the running and if the guns runs well more shooters start shooting them, they'll be fine, but worst thing that can happen is to start having issues already. Then everyone will figure its just like the Sigma and ditch it forever.

I really liked the one I shot and was pretty happy with it, I hope it runs the same.

[dirtypool40]

You're right Kev. I was bitten by that POS Sigma, and am VERY skeptical about the M&P because of that. I've come close to buying several times, but I just can't "pull the trigger" (pun intended).

That hinged trigger lookes a lot like the Smegma, and if they both have the wool dampner, I don't know. People are swapping parts out of GLocks just like they did with the Sigma, so I'm pretty confused.

And do I want a 9 or 40?

Anyone know if it uses the same mags? Dealers are spouting the party line that it's a completely new gun, but I a dubious.

[sfinney]

I never owned a Sigma, but knew a couple guys that did, and have handled them.... I can say the M&P mag is NOT a Sigma mag, looks totally different. I can't say that a Sigma mag won't insert in the gun, I don't have one handy, but they really look like different mags.

Also, the .40 mag and the 9mm mags are different - the 9mm mags have side indentations ala STI mags in the sides. Maybe you could run 9mm in the .40 mags, like you can with the XD?

Anyway, if you hold a M&P, it just feels solid - it just FEELS better than alot of guns, and to me, better than a Glock, XD, Sigma etc..... it just handles better.

I haven't had the chance to shoot my 9mm M&P yet, but maybe this weekend. And from what I've read so far, an ISMI Glock recoil spring, trigger spring, reduced striker spring, some polishing, may be in the future plans if I keep it.

And I like the feel of the trigger, much more "crisp" (if you can use that word on a striker fired gun) than a Glock..... but not as nice as a pro-tuned XD trigger. Out of the box however, the M&P wins hands down IMHO vs stock Glocks or XDs. So I have hopes the M&P trigger can be made at least as nice with work as a nicely tuned Glock or XD. We'll see!

Edited May 31, 2006 by sfinney

[Vlad]

Having seen the "thing" in the trigger spring on Raz-0's gun, I'm pretty sure that is not wool. It looks like a short polymer rod which keeps the spring from bending sideways, it looks fairly solid.

[raz-0]

You're right Kev. I was bitten by that POS Sigma, and am VERY skeptical about the M&P because of that. I've come close to buying several times, but I just can't "pull the trigger" (pun intended).

That hinged trigger lookes a lot like the Smegma, and if they both have the wool dampner, I don't know. People are swapping parts out of GLocks just like they did with the Sigma, so I'm pretty confused.

Well I have poked around more, and with the aid of a small pin, I can say that as far as I can tell, the white thing is some sort of polymer similar to the stuff in those white click erasers.

DISCLAIMER: this is based off of what pics I could find of XD and Glock trigger mechanisms on the web and my non-gunsmith self looking at the internals of my M&P without taking it apart.

referneces:

glock stuff mostly form info on glockmeister.com

sigma internals from http://lapetoire.free.fr/public/mod%20poing/S/S&W-Sigma.jpg

and http://www.gunblast.com/SWSigma9.htm

XD stuff from this http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=...light=pretravel

and this http://www.hs2000talk.com/viewtopic.php?t=...n+creek+trigger

Some pics of the M&P internals can be found here http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP.htm

As far as the trigger for the M&P, It looks like a hybrid between the sigma, XD, and glock. For the slide, picture the glock setup with changes made to have the frinig pin block moved rearward (similar to the XD position, but not method of blocking) and the extractor held in with a pin inserted from the top (FP block is also held in from the top). The FP block works more like how they work in a cz or clone than the way it appears to in the glock picks on it up on glockmeister) Other than the bit that pokes out of the slide that interfaces with the sear, the striker is shaped differently than the glock. The channel liner, spacer sleeve, and spring cups look VERY similar except the M&P's are white, and the glocks are black. I suspect they are not interchangable though as they interface to the striker, which appers to eb dimensioned differently. The striker springs fit, but I doubt much else will. The external portion of the FP block looks simiar, but I can't say for the internal bits, and I haven't any dimensions for the glock parts anyway, so measuring them wouldn't tell me much.

The actual trigger part of the trigger (part that protrudes out of the gun) appears to be very similar to the original sigma. The trigger spring looks to be similar, except for a new material in the insert. Who knows about metalurgy though. The trigger bar is a completely new design (other than where it mates up to the trigger) compared to what I was able to find of the sigma internals (referencing ). The bit that moves the FP block looks a lot like the glocks, but at the other end of the trigger bar. The quality of the trigger bar/FP block interface IS going to vary as it is the side of a stamped piece of metal, and the finish will vary. It smooths out with use, but I suspect it will be one of the bits needing polishing in trigger job along with the FP block. The sear block/module is completley changed from the sigma as far as I can tell. It still has a pivoting wedge like thing for the sear, but as far as I can tell the geometry and interface of all the bits is different than on the sigma. The ejector is bigger and beefier. The whole disconnect, trigger bar to sear interface, what has what kind of springs, etc. appear different.

After looking at it, I coudl see the following things to do in the process of a trigger job.

1) polish the heck out of the FP block and the trigger bar bit that contacts it.

2) polish and true the leg on the striker that contacts the sear. IT comes neither well polished, nor completely square.

3) polish the side of the trigger bar that can contact the ejection side leg of the slide release.

4) replace the trigger spring and/or striker spring.

5) come up with a trigger bar stamaping that will have a bit you file down to adjust overtravel. Alternately acheive same by welding a bit on. The original stamping had to actually eliminate metal that would have had to bein that very spot in order to make the bit that moves the sear.

6) pretravel probably can't have much done about it without altering the gemoery of the trigger bar, but there's clearance to take a little out while leaving the FP block functional. Putting in a stop like the XD trigger jobs would probably interfere with the slide release.

I'll try to get pictures up of the internals so you guys can see what is what in there.

[kend]

thread drift......where can i buy fibre optic sights for my new m&p 9?

We just built some prototypes for the M&P, there will be a couple of them being used at the Carolina Cup this weekend. We're setting up for a production run and our plan is to have blanks on the shelf and we will finish machine to the customers specs when they order, width, height, plain, fo, serrated. It shouldn't be too long, a couple of weeks, before we're ready. Speed Shooter Specialties

[dirtypool40]

Cool make some thin ones!!!

I can't wait to see if there's a Heinie slatpro coming, or what would retro to that dovetail. It looks the same as some early S&W Novaks.

[raz-0]

You're right Kev. I was bitten by that POS Sigma, and am VERY skeptical about the M&P because of that. I've come close to buying several times, but I just can't "pull the trigger" (pun intended).

That hinged trigger lookes a lot like the Smegma, and if they both have the wool dampner, I don't know. People are swapping parts out of GLocks just like they did with the Sigma, so I'm pretty confused.

Well I have poked around more, and with the aid of a small pin, I can say that as far as I can tell, the white thing is some sort of polymer similar to the stuff in those white click erasers.

OK, I double checked after looking at the close up pics I took cause they looked like it might be wooly. After coming up with a new poking tool that doesn't get into the fibers like a pin does (bent paperclip), it's a felt cylinder as best I can tell. It does feel like a polymer chunk when poking it with a pin, but not if you scrape it a little.

I took a bunch of very up close pictures, and most of them turned out nice and sharp. THere's about 2MB of them, so I put them on their own web page. They should give a pretty good look at the trigger mechanism.

http://www.bloodimage.com/SWMP/SWMP.html

[chp5]

thread drift......where can i buy fibre optic sights for my new m&p 9?

We just built some prototypes for the M&P, there will be a couple of them being used at the Carolina Cup this weekend. We're setting up for a production run and our plan is to have blanks on the shelf and we will finish machine to the customers specs when they order, width, height, plain, fo, serrated. It shouldn't be too long, a couple of weeks, before we're ready. Speed Shooter Specialties

That's awesome! I assume it will be for the stock rear sight - correct?

[kend]

I assume it will be for the stock rear sight - correct?

We'll finish them at any dimension you want, the prototypes we're working with are using the new Warren rear sight.

[chp5]

I assume it will be for the stock rear sight - correct?

We'll finish them at any dimension you want, the prototypes we're working with are using the new Warren rear sight.

That's great. I didn't know Warren was making a rear sight for the M&P.

[kend]

I didn't know Warren was making a rear sight for the M&P.

Prototypes also.....