Racinready300ex Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 11 minutes ago, pskys2 said: Nah, how can one be certain that the B Class, in any Division, Competitor hasn't worked his butt off to get out of C? I just don't look at things in that manner. I know plenty of M & GM's who have scads of natural ability and don't work at it, some are too busy, some are lazy, to some it just doesn't matter. The guys I know who are B class and on average don't do the things the guys who are GM are doing. Nor do I know many GM's who didn't work at it. 16 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: and wanting an honest chance to win against people who accept the same equipment handicaps I could see that if it were more than 1.3% of the sport. As it is you don't really get to shoot against anyone anyway. 3 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: That's the reason I find the division so compelling. It's an undiluted test of fundamentals. Is your trigger pulling bad? You'll be yanking shots off target. Are you lacking in visual patience? Too bad—there's not a lot of room for missing in most stage plans. It isn't a great test of foot speed, on account of all the reloading, I guess, but it is a pretty good test of efficient, economical movement. This is basically the opposite of why I stopped. I find all the divisions the fundamentals matter. Even with a hicap gun you can't run around squirting bullets everywhere. More than a couple make up shots on a stage and you'll be to slow. Better off not having any. I also realized because you spend so much time reloading, the efficient movement stuff didn't apply at all. You don't need to really be good and shooting into or out of a position because you're just going to run out of ammo anyway. No need to shoot on the move because you'll end up doing a standing reload at the next position. You really don't need any flow, there is no blending positions together or any of that stuff. The game is complexly different. Revolver was much easier and simpler in those regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I also realized because you spend so much time reloading, the efficient movement stuff didn't apply at all. You don't need to really be good and shooting into or out of a position because you're just going to run out of ammo anyway. No need to shoot on the move because you'll end up doing a standing reload at the next position. You really don't need any flow, there is no blending positions together or any of that stuff. The game is complexly different. Revolver was much easier and simpler in those regards. Some of that's down to stage design. It's definitely not as exciting if you see a bunch of 8-round arrays. There are usually 4- and 6-round stops in stages I do for the local I help run, though, which leaves more room for blended positions. I do a fair bit of shooting into and out of positions even when they're 8 rounds, though not frequently both on one position. The stage planning gets more interesting the better my reloads get—I can have one done in three steps (start with lead leg, crossover or shuffle step with trail leg, plant lead leg) now, and I'm hoping to get that down to two steps over the winter with some technique tweaks to get hand speed into play more. 10 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: I could see that if it were more than 1.3% of the sport. As it is you don't really get to shoot against anyone anyway. Except at the matches where I do. It gets back to the earlier points in the thread that I'm not hurting anyone shooting revolver, and it's not like there's any added burden on the match to let me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: And there is the problem, I said "Most" and you listed like 6 guys. The division is so small that 6 guys are most of the division lol well, what are we talking about now? Isn't the real truth about nationals there are maybe 6-8 actual contenders, for real? and its the same 6-8 names for all auto divisions? I know its often said anyone in the top 16 could win but I think this falls into the same odds winning lottery and aside from cinderalla story like co #2 this year, this is all pretty predictable.... 3 hours ago, twodownzero said: Open is the division for innovation. It should never be removed from the game regardless of its popularity. on the whole, open is more popular than ever based on the participation numbers. On a medium term timeline, all the iron sight divisions are trending down including limited because .40 sucks...prod, etc...they are all going to single digit participation, hot take, USPSA is a red dot sport now. This years CO is arguable the most contested nationals ever, right? Who was missing? christian saylor? otherwise everyone that could win was in the mix...aside from a legislative move that changed the sport, Open, CO, and PCC will become the sport and CO will be by far the highest participation because the guns don't cost 5K and you can buy ammo over the counter. 12 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: But it might take something crazy like another magazine ban to bring back locap. But is that really crazy? bite your tongue! you aren't wrong though, but yeah, some insane national mag ban thing would bring locap back.... On a whole, the larger question I think that will maybe termper some move to kill off a division is that IPSC still has it. I know most USPSA shooters dngaf about IPSC but its at least worth considering that the global org has rules for the division. The whirled chute is the Olympics of this sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: The stage planning gets more interesting the better my reloads get—I can have one done in three steps (start with lead leg, crossover or shuffle step with trail leg, plant lead leg) now, and I'm hoping to get that down to two steps over the winter with some technique tweaks to get hand speed into play more. This is the difference in divisions. A fast reload with a revolver is what 1.75? So under 2. So doing one in two steps is about 1 step a second nothing crazy and your in the next position ready to shoot. There's no real need to lean out or shoot off balance, you can easily get to the next position is less than 2 seconds. Put a CO gun in your hand, now you're going to take on step while shooting the last target and keep the gun up transitions it to the 1st target of the next position. The split between the targets is maybe a half second and you shot 4 shots all on essentially on the move. The game is completely different. And I agree, stage design is a big part of it. I don't think stages are built with locap shooters in mind these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 6 minutes ago, testosterone said: On a whole, the larger question I think that will maybe termper some move to kill off a division is that IPSC still has it. I know most USPSA shooters dngaf about IPSC but its at least worth considering that the global org has rules for the division. The whirled chute is the Olympics of this sport. Must admit I like to see a American at the top of all the divisions at world shoots. And that probably wont happen with out a revolver division. Probably the best argument in favor of keeping the division you can make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said: And I agree, stage design is a big part of it. I don't think stages are built with locap shooters in mind these days. My other regular match is at a club with the initials LCSA and run by the local older/retired PCC/Open set. I joke that the club's name stands for 'locap shooters annoyed'. I still enjoy it, but there's very little room for improvisation in the 8-round divisions, not much more for 10-round guns, and not a lot of space between positions to enable those movement skills to come into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: My other regular match is at a club with the initials LCSA and run by the local older/retired PCC/Open set. I joke that the club's name stands for 'locap shooters annoyed'. I still enjoy it, but there's very little room for improvisation in the 8-round divisions, not much more for 10-round guns, and not a lot of space between positions to enable those movement skills to come into play. That seems to be the trend, here. With a hicap gun you can basically just stay on the trigger the whole stage. I find sometimes I'm debating where to stop shooting for 1 reload. I think that's hurting the locap divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted October 21, 2021 Share Posted October 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: That seems to be the trend, here. With a hicap gun you can basically just stay on the trigger the whole stage. I find sometimes I'm debating where to stop shooting for 1 reload. I think that's hurting the locap divisions. you could write that line anytime since 2010 when I started and it would be accurate. Club matches in general turn into 8 reload 8 reload 8 overtime, its hard for it to continuously be creative. 2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: The game is completely different. this is true for hicap vs locap. I think the diff when you watch mwp/lentz/wolfe/olhasso flow through a stage with a revolver they still crush because they ARE shooting immediately, leaning out, shooting out of positions, etc...that is my subjective view having squadded with all of them many times and watching them shoot. They are doing all the fundamental things that are 100% universal to points per second, shoot immediately, positioning, leave immediately, etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 14 hours ago, testosterone said: you could write that line anytime since 2010 when I started and it would be accurate. Club matches in general turn into 8 reload 8 reload 8 overtime, its hard for it to continuously be creative. Around here I don't see much 8, 8, 8 stages. But it does seem like the movement between positions is typically vary short not leaving time for a reload even for a bottom feeder. And you see a lot of stages where the hicap guys will shoot 12+ rounds from one position. For example the last major I shot. Stage 1 = 9 rounds from one position, Stage 3 = 12 rounds, stage 4=12 rounds from the 2nd position and 12 from at the end, Stage 7 was 10 from the 1st and 10 from the last. Stage 8 = 9 rounds. Everything else was 8 or less from either a position or moving. Locap guys just added more positions. I don't really think this is great stage design, but it's not uncommon these days. 14 hours ago, testosterone said: this is true for hicap vs locap. I think the diff when you watch mwp/lentz/wolfe/olhasso flow through a stage with a revolver they still crush because they ARE shooting immediately, leaning out, shooting out of positions, etc...that is my subjective view having squadded with all of them many times and watching them shoot. They are doing all the fundamental things that are 100% universal to points per second, shoot immediately, positioning, leave immediately, etc... I'm just saying shooting and leaving immediately is different with a loaded gun vs a empty gun that takes two seconds to reload. Even watching Olhasso, or Lentz shoot, lots of times they get to the next position and haven't finished the reload yet. There is vary little coming into position with the gun up and shooting the first target on the move compared to other divisions where you need to do that at every position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 The only thing about the Classic Nationals I don't agree with, versus past years, is adding in L10? Are they trying to resurrect L10? I'd think it would be better suited to a Production Nationals, 10 rounds also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteekay Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 1 hour ago, pskys2 said: The only thing about the Classic Nationals I don't agree with, versus past years, is adding in L10? Are they trying to resurrect L10? I'd think it would be better suited to a Production Nationals, 10 rounds also? Maybe trying to tempt Limited shooters to show up with downloaded mags? There aren't (m)any other big matches in that timeframe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
testosterone Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 23 minutes ago, matteekay said: Maybe trying to tempt Limited shooters to show up with downloaded mags? There aren't (m)any other big matches in that timeframe. Probably this. l10 is just an artifact of US assault weapons ban. Putting it adjacent to the other locaps makes sense from an overall match(locap "friendly" stage designs) and it gives the usual suspects the option to contest more divisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted October 22, 2021 Share Posted October 22, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, matteekay said: Maybe trying to tempt Limited shooters to show up with downloaded mags? There aren't (m)any other big matches in that timeframe. I agree but then that's just going to degrade participation in the other 2 Divisions (seems we've been seeing this discussion lately?) AND L10 isn't a "Classic" by any stretch. Edited October 22, 2021 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 I'm thinking about going, where do you fly into? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 1 minute ago, ysrracer said: I'm thinking about going, where do you fly into? Birmingham, AL or Atlanta, GA which ever has the cheapest direct flight for me. Talladega is an hour East of Birmingham, and two hours West of Atlanta, GA. Keep in mind if you choose Atlanta there is a time change of 1 hour back and forth to consider for flight times. I found the flight schedule and car rentals pretty agreeable in Atlanta, that made the extra hour drive each way worth it for one of the trips. Especially when booking with short notice. If you book a ways out Birmingham might be your best option. Depends on your local airline and if they fly into Birmingham. I hate connections, especially when traveling with Firearms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 Do I need a "slot" for this match, or is it open to anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 1 minute ago, ysrracer said: Do I need a "slot" for this match, or is it open to anyone? You always need a slot. I guess if it doesn't fill up you could walk on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerMcFadden Posted January 12, 2022 Author Share Posted January 12, 2022 13 minutes ago, Sarge said: You always need a slot. I guess if it doesn't fill up you could walk on? Naw, last year there was a ton of space for gen pop to sign up. And now with no Prod it’ll be even more open. Slots are nice since you get your choice of squads but since there’s gonna be no more than 3 squads and one is already the super squad it’s not that big of a deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 (edited) On 1/11/2022 at 6:17 PM, ysrracer said: Do I need a "slot" for this match, or is it open to anyone? Yes, and No, Slots are scheduled to be issued now for those who qualify from 2021 USPSA Nationals and at Area Championships and for Clubs/Sections Activity Credits. They start accepting them on February 9th and good until March 4th. Contact your local USPSA Club and/or your USPSA Section Corrdinator. On March 5th Open Registration starts on a first come first served basis. Edited January 13, 2022 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteekay Posted January 13, 2022 Share Posted January 13, 2022 Yup. I got a slot but declined it; too many other matches in that timeframe. I'll get back to Nats one of these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatJones Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I received a slot from my section. I booked the Airbnb last night. Tonight I look at flights I wonder how many shooters we'll have in revo division this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteekay Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, PatJones said: I received a slot from my section. I booked the Airbnb last night. Tonight I look at flights Good for you! Do us proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I'm planning on making the trip this year, provided I get a slot in open registration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 11 minutes ago, Fishbreath said: I'm planning on making the trip this year, provided I get a slot in open registration. Where and when will "open registration" be listed? Is there a link on practiscore ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishbreath Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 18 minutes ago, ysrracer said: Where and when will "open registration" be listed? Presumably it'll be on Practiscore like always, but it doesn't seem to be searchable/public yet. USPSA social media says open registration starts Saturday, March 5 at 7pm ET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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