Rule 8.1.3

[Sarge]

11 hours ago, DirkD said:

Why can't uspsa send out a rule book?

 

What does uspsa do for clubs and members?

 

Clubs put on matches, uspsa doesn't except nationals,  and they use volunteers to run the matches build stages, run shooters and uspsa doesn't do much except take money, even threw a guy out because he pulled his scores and usosa didn't get their 3 dollars.

 

With a printed rule book that doesn't change all the time you can keep it in your bag, tab it, underline highlight pertinent rules, hand it to a ro or shooters to show them the rules. Not as easy on your phone.

 

Uspsa would rather take money from clubs than print a rule book for their members and sell it as a benefit to have a download for the rule book

You are either new to USPSA or living under a rock. You are at look east two years late to this argument. It was debated endlessly but in the end there is no paper rulebook.

  I hate technology myself but in this case it’s a good thing. Fact was, the instant a rulebook was distributed it became obsolete due to constantly changing rules, rulings, etc. The fact I went through 3 different rulebooks in just 8-9 years say a lot.

[DirkD]

9 hours ago, Sarge said:

You are either new to USPSA or living under a rock. You are at look east two years late to this argument. It was debated endlessly but in the end there is no paper rulebook.

  I hate technology myself but in this case it’s a good thing. Fact was, the instant a rulebook was distributed it became obsolete due to constantly changing rules, rulings, etc. The fact I went through 3 different rulebooks in just 8-9 years say a lot.

Rules didn't change as often when the rule book was printed.

[PatJones]

On 1/6/2021 at 1:12 PM, Boomstick303 said:

 

Sorry I will be more precise.  The RO should have never let the shooter start the course of Fire.  Is that better?  Or is it legal to start a stage leaning on a prop outside of the shooting area and not incur a penalty.  He would be leaning on the prop on the clock, after the timer is started right?  He is still leaning on the prop once the buzzer goes off.  Either way it looked to me the RO errored.  Or am I not correct?

 

Again, your example of rules that are not concise is????

 

If the start position requirements are met, 10.2.1 only provides for procedural penalties while shooting.

[MemphisMechanic]

@DirkD @Joe4d @Thomas H

 

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed, permitting the BOD and president to change and update things constantly? Check an old printed rulebook against the current one. Those sections are gone.

 

That rules instability thing we complain about is a ‘feature’ implemented by the current administration.

 

They went paperless specifically to allow continuous modification & improvement. On purpose. And most of us didn’t even notice.

 

There’s no point in printing the rulebook when it’ll be obsolete before your next major match.

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by MemphisMechanic

[DirkD]

38 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@DirkD @Joe4d @Thomas H

 

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed, permitting the BOD and president to change and update things constantly? Check an old printed rulebook against the current one. Those sections are gone.

 

That rules instability thing we complain about is a ‘feature’ implemented by the current administration.

 

They went paperless specifically to allow continuous modification & improvement. On purpose. And most of us didn’t even notice.

 

There’s no point in printing the rulebook when it’ll be obsolete before your next major match.

 

yes, there was a 2 year period but that was changed, now they can change them whenever they want to.

I am surprised they have not come out with a new rule book for 2021

[ChuckS]

28 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed,

--- snip ---

 

Actually, the bylaws were changed. 

This is the 2016 version:

 

16.2 Competition Equipment Rules Modifications:

Changes to U.S. Division rules affecting personal competition equipment shall be adopted for a specific Division no more frequently than every two years except as may be required to comply with federal laws. Those changes must be published in the corporate newsletter three months prior to effective date.

 

This was adopted in 2017:

 

16.2 Competition Equipment Rules Modifications:
Changes to USPSA Division rules affecting personal competition equipment shall be adopted for a specific nonprovisional division no more frequently than every two years except as outlined below:
i.) Changes as required to comply with federal laws
ii.) Changes or clarifications which, approved by the BOD with consultation of DNROI and the instructor
corps, would loosen restrictions or otherwise expand allowed personal competition equipment for a specific
Division
Notice of all such changes must be published in the board minutes three months prior to effective date.

 

(This was/is for equipment rules. I don't recall any other limit on change outside of equipment rules. There may of been one prior to the IPSC/USPSA rulebook split.)

[WaJim]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@DirkD @Joe4d @Thomas H

 

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed, permitting the BOD and president to change and update things constantly? Check an old printed rulebook against the current one. Those sections are gone.

 

That rules instability thing we complain about is a ‘feature’ implemented by the current administration.

 

They went paperless specifically to allow continuous modification & improvement. On purpose. And most of us didn’t even notice.

 

There’s no point in printing the rulebook when it’ll be obsolete before your next major match.

 

 

Thanks Memphis, the thread wasn't about changing a rule, its directive or its meaning just rewording it.

 

A subtle change.

 

Actually the change would make it less wordy and would affect nothing but clarity, as the case may be.

Edited January 8, 2021 by WaJim

[PatJones]

1 hour ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@DirkD @Joe4d @Thomas H

 

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed, permitting the BOD and president to change and update things constantly? Check an old printed rulebook against the current one. Those sections are gone.

 

That rules instability thing we complain about is a ‘feature’ implemented by the current administration.

 

They went paperless specifically to allow continuous modification & improvement. On purpose. And most of us didn’t even notice.

 

There’s no point in printing the rulebook when it’ll be obsolete before your next major match.

 

It was much better years ago when I had to print out all the rulings and clarifications off the web page and bring them to matches I was ROing. That was a lot easier then downloading the current PDF to my phone.

[DirkD]

5 minutes ago, WaJim said:

 

Thanks Memphis, the thread wasn't about changing a rule, its directive or its meaning just rewording it.

 

A subtle change.

 

Actually the change would make it less wordy and would affect nothing but clarity, as the case may be.

rule is fine, everyone else understands it no reason to change it.

[ChuckS]

20 minutes ago, PatJones said:

It was much better years ago when I had to print out all the rulings and clarifications off the web page and bring them to matches I was ROing. That was a lot easier then downloading the current PDF to my phone.

[DirkD]

38 minutes ago, PatJones said:

It was much better years ago when I had to print out all the rulings and clarifications off the web page and bring them to matches I was ROing. That was a lot easier then downloading the current PDF to my phone.

currently there are 40 rulings on the website 

[WaJim]

48 minutes ago, DirkD said:

rule is fine, everyone else understands it no reason to change it.

 

 

Yeah, you've already said that...i get it.

 

 

 

[DirkD]

3 minutes ago, WaJim said:

 

 

Yeah, you've already said that...i get it.

 

 

 

apparently you didn't you still want the rule changed

[ChuckS]

59 minutes ago, DirkD said:

currently there are 40 rulings on the website 

And your point is?

[Thomas H]

5 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

@DirkD @Joe4d @Thomas H

 

Are you guys aware the restrictions against frequent changing of the rules were subtly and delibrately removed, permitting the BOD and president to change and update things constantly? Check an old printed rulebook against the current one. Those sections are gone.

 

Subtly removed?  It was actually a fairly large, well-known, and obvious discussion.  (Since it required a change to the bylaws.)  There wasn't anything subtle about it! 

 

So yes, we ARE aware of it.

 

3 hours ago, DirkD said:

currently there are 40 rulings on the website 

 

Yup.  And they are all incorporated into the rulebook, so you don't need to actually go check them out one by one, unless you want a further explanation of something (which is sometimes useful).

 

It is actually more a change log than anything---it ISN'T is a separate set of rulings that you need to know in addition to the rulebook, which is rather nice. 

PatJones completely said it right:

4 hours ago, PatJones said:

It was much better years ago when I had to print out all the rulings and clarifications off the web page and bring them to matches I was ROing. That was a lot easier then downloading the current PDF to my phone.

 

...and if you want a paper copy, there's this thing called a printer...

 

...and if you want a correct copy, download it.  Which anyone can do easily.

 

[nasty618]

9 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

That rules instability thing we complain about is a ‘feature’ implemented by the current administration.

That's a very good point and it makes sense.

 

[WaJim]

8 hours ago, DirkD said:

apparently you didn't you still want the rule changed

 

:Facepalm: