Safety on/off ??

[Just4FunLP]

I’ve been shooting USPSA for many years and I’ve recently purchased a rifle. I may or may not actually shoot it in a match, but I’m trying to improve my skills with some dryfire before I get too carried away. My question is, when does the safety have to go on and off when running a stage in a match?  I’ve never used a safety, so this is something I want to start practicing correctly as soon as possible. 
 

I searched for the word “safe” in the rule book, but about all I came up with was:

“The "Stage Ready Condition" for all rifles shall be magazine and chamber loaded with the safety engaged, unless stipulated otherwise in the Written Stage Briefing.”

 

Thanks 

[Don_B]

Safety is.supposed to be on after make ready and can be taken off after the start signal. Some clubs/matches will allow taking the safety off after stand by.

Once you get used to it you will not be any slower by taking the safety off after the start signal. 

 

Get in the habit of putting it back on after you are finished shooting and you will avoid bad things from happening. 

[Just4FunLP]

I didn’t know if it was necessary to put on the safety during mag changes or when moving to a new position.  It sounds like it’s similar to a 1911 in USPSA. Thanks. 

[Sarge]

32 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said:

I didn’t know if it was necessary to put on the safety during mag changes or when moving to a new position.  It sounds like it’s similar to a 1911 in USPSA. Thanks. 

How did you draw that conclusion from the posted response?

[Just4FunLP]

Safety is supposed to be on after make ready and can come off after the start signal.

[Sarge]

Just now, Just4FunLP said:

Safety is supposed to be on after make ready and can come off after the start signal.

But how do you make the quantum leap to, "I didn’t know if it was necessary to put on the safety during mag changes or when moving to a new position."

[Just4FunLP]

Just asking...

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, Just4FunLP said:

Just asking...

Oh crap, now I get it. Sorry...   Generally there is never a requirement to put a gun on safe other than after make ready or if the need arises to holster or put a long gun in a barrel etc. I know a few USPSA shooters who put their 2011's on safe when moving or reloading but it's pretty rare.

[SGT_Schultz]

10 hours ago, Sarge said:

But how do you make the quantum leap to, "I didn’t know if it was necessary to put on the safety during mag changes or when moving to a new position."

 

Many trainers with a military background (like SF/SoF background) insist that you do so during their classes.

 

Evidently that's doctrine in many military units.

Edited December 30, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[DirkD]

12 hours ago, Sarge said:

How did you draw that conclusion from the posted response?

8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets all movement (see Glossary, App. A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction.

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, DirkD said:

8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets all movement (see Glossary, App. A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction.

Should not must. 99.9 % don’t 

[Ming the Merciless]

Awesome to know I'm among the 0.1%.  If my finger is off the trigger, the safety is on.

[emjbe]

12 hours ago, Sarge said:

Should not must. 99.9 % don’t 

 

That’s not my experience.  Of the people I RO i notice a large majority click the selector to “safe” every time the rifle is not on target (including movement on a stage and mag changes) and then move the selector to “fire” only when they are on target.  I’d estimate 80% percent.

 

We have a rifle match Saturday ... I’ll try to get some on video and try to keep track of the percentage who do it.

 

 

[perttime]

It has been some time since I shot a match with a "long gun". I remember a couple of occasions from the last few years that I engaged the safety during COF on a 1911. Generally, it was something where I was moving far enough to have time for more than reloading and setting up for the next shot - or moving over some elaborate obstacle.

[Sarge]

33 minutes ago, emjbe said:

 

That’s not my experience.  Of the people I RO i notice a large majority click the selector to “safe” every time the rifle is not on target (including movement on a stage and mag changes) and then move the selector to “fire” only when they are on target.  I’d estimate 80% percent.

 

We have a rifle match Saturday ... I’ll try to get some on video and try to keep track of the percentage who do it.

 

 

Rules quoted are USPSA 

[Sarge]

33 minutes ago, perttime said:

It has been some time since I shot a match with a "long gun". I remember a couple of occasions from the last few years that I engaged the safety during COF on a 1911. Generally, it was something where I was moving far enough to have time for more than reloading and setting up for the next shot - or moving over some elaborate obstacle.

I can see instances where it might make sense for sure.

[AKJD]

After 20 years as a grunt putting the safety on is a well ingrained habit and when doing tactical training I still do, and as an instructor that is what I teach. However when shooting 3 gun it’s much more situational dependent on if I put it on while moving. When I shot single stack or am shooting a 2011 in USPSA I never put the safety on during a stage. 

[Old3GNR]

I shot an AR-15 in USPSA Multi-Gun for several years and now frequently shoot a PCC in USPSA.  Safety is always on at the start and never re-engaged.  I'm now shooting Some PRS with a Tikka bolt gun and  local AR PRS type matches.  The bolt gun is required to have the bolt open when changing positions, the AR is required to have safety on when changing positions.

[Just4FunLP]

Thanks for all the info.
 

The rule I quoted about “ready condition with the safety on” in my original post was from the 3 Gun Nation Multi-Gun rule book.  DirkD’s quote is from the USPSA Rifle, Shotgun, Multi-Gun rules. “8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets all movement (see Glossary, App. A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction.”  That’s exactly what I was looking for. Apparently, I don’t even know what sport I’m practicing for, lol.  

 

I ran into a friend yesterday that shoots 3-Gun and he made it sound like 8.5.1 is not enforced. He said he tries to flip on the safety if he’s got a long run to the next shooting position, but not during reloads and such. 

 

[Southpaw]

Key words there are "must" vs. "should".  You must have your finger outside the trigger guard when specified or it's a DQ.  Saying you should put the safety on during movement is just a suggestion, nothing happens if you don't do it.

 

With loaded rifle you must have safety on at the start of the stage before the beep, and if you ever put rifle down, like dumping it in multigun.

[poortrader]

I live by the ole saying " What can you afford?"  This past summer, I was running with the rifle and the stage prop snagged my pants.  I face planted with the muzzle straight into the ground.  I didn't drop the rifle so I got up and finished the COF.  I always transition with the safety engaged on my rifle because you never know what might happen.  I  got a reshoot due to stage malfunction. 

[SGT_Schultz]

8 hours ago, Just4FunLP said:

Thanks for all the info.
 

The rule I quoted about “ready condition with the safety on” in my original post was from the 3 Gun Nation Multi-Gun rule book.  DirkD’s quote is from the USPSA Rifle, Shotgun, Multi-Gun rules. “8.5.1 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets all movement (see Glossary, App. A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. The firearm must be pointed in a safe direction.”  That’s exactly what I was looking for. Apparently, I don’t even know what sport I’m practicing for, lol.  

 

I ran into a friend yesterday that shoots 3-Gun and he made it sound like 8.5.1 is not enforced. He said he tries to flip on the safety if he’s got a long run to the next shooting position, but not during reloads and such. 

 

 

I have zero idea of what 3 Gun Nation rules say about safety use after the start signal.

 

Long story short, that USPSA rule in your post that I quoted above absolutely does not require shooters to engage the safety at any point after the start signal.

 

Go look in the glossary the meanings of the words "must" and "should".

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[Just4FunLP]

I totally missed the “should not must” comment. That clears up the issue for me. 
 

Thanks for your patience. 

[DirkD]

On 1/2/2021 at 1:41 AM, Southpaw said:

Key words there are "must" vs. "should".  You must have your finger outside the trigger guard when specified or it's a DQ.  Saying you should put the safety on during movement is just a suggestion, nothing happens if you don't do it.

 

With loaded rifle you must have safety on at the start of the stage before the beep, and if you ever put rifle down, like dumping it in multigun.

ditching a long gun with safety off is not a DQ.

[DirkD]

On 1/2/2021 at 6:54 AM, poortrader said:

I live by the ole saying " What can you afford?"  This past summer, I was running with the rifle and the stage prop snagged my pants.  I face planted with the muzzle straight into the ground.  I didn't drop the rifle so I got up and finished the COF.  I always transition with the safety engaged on my rifle because you never know what might happen.  I  got a reshoot due to stage malfunction. 

how is falling down a stage malfunction?