Safety on/off ??

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

how is falling down a stage malfunction?

Says his pants snagged a prop. Maybe MD figured it was a safety issue and corrected the problem? I can see any number of ways props could cause a reshoot. It’s not “falling down” that warranted the reshoot. It’s what caused it.

Of course it could have just been an outlaw or 3gun match and he just got a reshoot for falling.

[DirkD]

7 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Says his pants snagged a prop. Maybe MD figured it was a safety issue and corrected the problem? I can see any number of ways props could cause a reshoot. It’s not “falling down” that warranted the reshoot. It’s what caused it.

Of course it could have just been an outlaw or 3gun match and he just got a reshoot for falling.

pants snagging on a prop doesn't sound like a reason for a re shoot, but you never know with the way ro's make up their own rules.

[Sarge]

5 minutes ago, DirkD said:

pants snagging on a prop doesn't sound like a reason for a re shoot, but you never know with the way ro's make up their own rules.

  Good RO’s don’t make up their own rules. If there was a legitimate way a prop was snagging clothing then I would rectify it if possible and issue a reshoot. If it was just shooter error then drive on.

[DirkD]

1 minute ago, Sarge said:

  Good RO’s don’t make up their own rules. If there was a legitimate way a prop was snagging clothing then I would rectify it if possible and issue a reshoot. If it was just shooter error then drive on.

never said they were good ro's, it is very common for ro's to give reshoots when there is no reason or rule to give a reshoot

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, DirkD said:

never said they were good ro's, it is very common for ro's to give reshoots when there is no reason or rule to give a reshoot

Perhaps were you shoot it works that way and that’s too bad. Around here if an RO tried that any one of the 6-8 CRO’s/RO’s on the squad would intervene . We do things right in Ohio I guess? I suspect things are done right in the vast majority of matches as well.

  Are you certified? If not, you should be. If you are then get involved and get things corrected. 

[DirkD]

Just now, Sarge said:

Perhaps were you shoot it works that way and that’s too bad. Around here if an RO tried that any one of the 6-8 CRO’s/RO’s on the squad would intervene . We do things right in Ohio I guess? I suspect things are done right in the vast majority of matches as well.

  Are you certified? If not, you should be. If you are then get involved and get things corrected. 

you must have never been to nationals

[Southpaw]

3 hours ago, DirkD said:

ditching a long gun with safety off is not a DQ.

 

I didn't say it was...

 

Depends on which ruleset you're using. Around here it used to be a DQ, but now is a zero for the stage. There might be some multigun sports where it's still a DQ, not sure since there's lots of different rulebooks out there.

[Southpaw]

3 hours ago, DirkD said:

ditching a long gun with safety off is not a DQ.

 

I didn't say it was...

 

Depends on which ruleset you're using. Around here it used to be a DQ, but now is a zero for the stage. There might be some multigun sports where it's still a DQ, not sure since there's lots of different rulebooks out there.

[DirkD]

Just now, Southpaw said:

 

I didn't say it was...

 

Depends on which ruleset you're using. Around here it used to be a DQ, but now is a zero for the stage. There might be some multigun sports where it's still a DQ, not sure since there's lots of different rulebooks out there.

I thought they were talking about uspsa multigun.

if it was a uspsa multigun match, it is 30 seconds or 3 procedurlas, not a dq, not a stage 0

[Southpaw]

[Sarge]

3 hours ago, DirkD said:

you must have never been to nationals

RM should nip that in the bud. 

[emjbe]

following up from the match last week.

 

On my squad 100% of the shooters I RO'ed moved the selector to "safe" during movement. It was clear to me either visually or I heard an audible click.  On the 2 stages with reloads each of the people I watched moved the selector to "safe" during the reload. We had one first-time competitor, but he was obviously well trained and he operated the selector during movement also.

 

note: @Sarge's post is correct about the rule being different than reality.  the USPSA rules allow a competitor to move without the selector on "safe" as long as the finger is outside the trigger guard (per the rule).  From what I've seen, the less experienced shooters learn finger control first, then after they notice that the higher placed shooters are operating the selector, they ask about it and start doing it also.

 

In my opinion the doctrine of movement and mag changes with the selector on "fire" should go the way of the tea cup grip ... it's ok for TV, but not for reality.

 

Here's a link to one of the shooters (@make_ready): https://www.instagram.com/p/CJmNUETrHJ8/?igshid=pg3jxdjwv8ki.  Swipe right to see- on the 3rd position he has to adjust further left and you can clearly see him moving the selector before he moves.  He was 2nd overall on that stage: https://practiscore.com/results/new/125598?q_result=1. 

 

 

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by emjbe

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, emjbe said:

 

 

note: @Sarge's post is correct about the rule being different than reality.  the USPSA rules allow a competitor to move without the selector on "safe" as long as the finger is outside the trigger guard (per the rule).  From what I've seen, the less experienced shooters learn finger control first, then after they notice that the higher placed

 

 

 

You have me totally confused. Are you talking USPSA? If so I don’t believe your analogy. 

[emjbe]

3 hours ago, Sarge said:

You have me totally confused. Are you talking USPSA? If so I don’t believe your analogy. 

 

I’m saying your post about the USPSA rule is correct - the rules do not require that you put the weapon on safe for movement or mag changes, only that you “should” do so.

 

I jumped in on this thread when you posted that 99.9% of shooters don’t put the weapon on safe during movement. 

On 12/30/2020 at 9:21 AM, Sarge said:

Should not must. 99.9 % don’t 

 

The original post asked specifically about rifles, so I’m speaking specifically about rifles when I say that, in my observations, it’s a minority of shooters who do not put their long gun on safe during movement and reloads. 

 

However, as I re-read all the posts I think you were saying that 99% of people don’t put their 1911’s on safe during movement. If that’s the case then I think you are correct on that also.

[DirkD]

 

20 hours ago, Sarge said:

RM should nip that in the bud. 

like I said, you must have never been to nationals

[BillChunn]

1 hour ago, DirkD said:

 

like I said, you must have never been to nationals

Derek,

 

The gentleman you are addressing has probable RO'ed or CRO'ed in more matches than you have shot.  When he asked if you were certified, that means as a National Range Officer's Institute Range Officer.  So what level are you?

 

BC

[Joe4d]

Why does it matter ? guy was making a point... Someone got on a soapbox. ... Evidently he's been to nationals and seen the same thing I have at nationals. RO's, CRO's that dont score or enforce rules as they should be.

FYI,, "SHOULD" as a verb has ZERO business in a rule book. SHALL , SHALL NOT,,, CAN,  CAN NOT,,, verbs like "should" are garbage.
One of the reasons I quit IDPA,,, a rule book full of suggestions, and a classifier that didnt even follow their own suggestions.
I expect better from USPSA,, and really kinda surprised that line is still in there.

 

Kinda surprised at the reported percent that put on safe with carbines,,, as It was pretty uncommon with pistols. Are the current PCC's more likely to suffer a mechanical failure and discharge ?

[SGT_Schultz]

On 1/5/2021 at 7:54 PM, emjbe said:

In my opinion the doctrine of movement and mag changes with the selector on "fire" should go the way of the tea cup grip ... it's ok for TV, but not for reality.

 

Here's a link to one of the shooters (@make_ready): https://www.instagram.com/p/CJmNUETrHJ8/?igshid=pg3jxdjwv8ki.  Swipe right to see- on the 3rd position he has to adjust further left and you can clearly see him moving the selector before he moves.  He was 2nd overall on that stage: https://practiscore.com/results/new/125598?q_result=1.

 

Our movement rules are just fine. 

 

This is a sport.  We don't tactically operate operationally while doing it.

 

Doesn't matter what some second place finisher did with his safety.  Doesn't matter what the instragram tactitards do.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Why does it matter ? guy was making a point... Someone got on a soapbox. ... Evidently he's been to nationals and seen the same thing I have at nationals. RO's, CRO's that dont score or enforce rules as they should be.

FYI,, "SHOULD" as a verb has ZERO business in a rule book. SHALL , SHALL NOT,,, CAN,  CAN NOT,,, verbs like "should" are garbage.
One of the reasons I quit IDPA,,, a rule book full of suggestions, and a classifier that didnt even follow their own suggestions.
I expect better from USPSA,, and really kinda surprised that line is still in there.

 

Kinda surprised at the reported percent that put on safe with carbines,,, as It was pretty uncommon with pistols. Are the current PCC's more likely to suffer a mechanical failure and discharge ?

Soapbox? Give me a break. Regardless of the match level RO’s should never be allowed to make up rules as they go. I personally think USPSA has several problems at HQ. If there are RO’s doing as they please at Nationals without being corrected by the RM (DNROI) then DNROI should be fired. s#!t runs down hill and other matches have RO’s getting away with making stuff up.  I haven’t been to Nationals and I don’t think I’ll ever go but I have a lot of MD and CRO experience up to and including many Area matches. Heck, I relieved an RO of his duties and sent him home from a state match. He wasn’t performing as he should and shooters deserved better. 

Edited January 7, 2021 by Sarge

[Just4FunLP]

[mpeltier]

"This is my safety sir"

 

After the buzzer this pretty much sums it up for me until unload and show clear. Most of the guys I shoot with also. Most guys I see diddling the safety during a course of fire are LE or MIL and relatively new. But I haven't been to a big match in a while, maybe things are different now.

 

As to re-shoots for stage malfunctions, I have seen personally at least once a big name shooter wine enough about a possible stage malfunction that they gave him a reshoot. If it were one of us mere mortals we would have been slapped down in a second. One of the many reasons I haven't attended big matches lately.

[Muricanwerewolf]

Lol this thread is a dumpster fire but whether you wanna put the safety on while moving or reloading, you can, it's probably safer, but it's not required and it's not unsafe to not do so. I don't bother except for doing so while reloading my shotgun, but only because my thumb is landing on it anyway as I flip the gun over. Doesn't cost any (or perhaps costs marginal) time IMO, but I suspect most of us don't bother training safety on while doing whatever because it's just not necessary within the bounds of the game and it's extra work on something that doesn't make us faster.