Uspsa Walk Through/prep Rituals

[Pact-Man]

I was reading a topic about USPSA shooters taking all kinds of time to walk through a COF, develop a game plan, etc. The time frame given was 5 minutes, and it seemed like everyone thought that 5 min was a very limited amount of time. How much time do you freaking need? I understand the value of developing a solid plan, but come on! Figure it out and shoot it! I admit, I primarily shoot IDPA, but enjoy USPSA as well. Am I being too IDPA oriented, or are USPSA shooters persnickety?

[George]

Methinks you don't understand that the 5 minute walk-through period is for the entire squad as they arrive at the stage. Once that period is over, the shooting starts with no additional time alloted for prep other than LAMR.

--

Regards,

[Steve Anderson]

Do you want to shoot the course of fire, or do you want to own it?

I want to make it my b*tch.

That takes a little time.

SA

[Paul B]

Some USPSA stages are very straight forward and 5 minutes is more than adequate. Different than IDPA, though, there are some USPSA stages that you can spend a long time trying to figure out.

Frank Garcia often has "memory" stages at the Florida Open where you can potentially engage the same target from about 4 places and it takes a well thought out plan to do it right. Also, I once shot a stage at the USPSA nationals that had about 10 air activated targets that you could shoot very fast or very slow depending on whether you could figure out the sequence of activation. I never could get it right only looking at it for 5 minutes, but I knew guys who videotaped it the day before as spectators and watched it the night before for good runs.

It all boils down to the fact that some USPSA stages are much more complex than most IDPA stages.

[Kevin Kline]

Like Paul said, there are some stages that are very simple and 5 minutes is more than enough, but there are some with several ways of shooting the stage and different views of targets to see from different places. Plus, sometimes you can see a target from certain places if you lean or bend where you would never know it by looking at it or just quickly walking through it.

I think on this issue, you were definitely being too IDPA oriented. No biggie.

[AlamoShooter]

This is a good point, but it is one that takes perspective on what a long time is. 10 shooters in a squad 5min = 30sec each. some of the shooters will take 10 sec some will take 60+ sec. 30 sec. average to figure out how to make up to 30+ shots in under 1/2 second each. Some of us? think that 10 years of exsperianc and 500 rounds practice two days a week is not that much. Some think dry fire spread out to 2hrs over the week is =not that much time. Spending every vaction day to go to out of town shoots,= no big deal. Taking off woork with out pay for two or three weeks out of the year,= not to big a price to pay. So its perspective, I shoot mostly steel and I have ben to a few IPSC matches and I had fun, and at those shoots I think a few times our sqad did take more than 5min for the pre shoot, But i do remember it was never more than a resonable amount of time to satisfy the shooter that everone had a resonable take on the stage. The shootrs that wonted more of a look got it when they helped tape.

If and when you get a chance to see a shooter engage a mix of steel and paper targets for a round count of 30 shots and do it from five diferent positions and having to "run" 15 yards to get to a place just to see the last target. and shoot the stage in 13 seconds or less. and the shooter did that with 5 min prep for his sqad. I have felt my years practice was worth it just to get to see some one else do it.

[carinab]

Methinks you don't understand that the 5 minute walk-through period is for the entire squad as they arrive at the stage. Once that period is over, the shooting starts with no additional time alloted for prep other than LAMR.

--

Regards,

The number of the people on a squad varies as well. At A6, we had fifteen people on our squad...that's 20 seconds a shooter. When the course of fire is 32 rounds, and there maybe five or six different positions to shoot from with a target (or targets sometimes) visible from multiple locations, and the entire stage description reads "On signal, draw and engage as targets become visible," you want and sometimes need all the time you can get.

[al503]

Do you want to shoot the course of fire, or do you want to own it?

I want to make it my b*tch.

That takes a little time.

SA

[Jim Norman]

Walk-through ettiquitte.

Line-up, go through the stage and EXIT OUT THE REAR so that the rest of the squad can go through without running into you.

If you want to go over a particular spot again, get back in line, you cannot run the 5 targets in the middle of the stage 20x while everyone else is trying to walk through from end to end.

Everyone has to shoot first sometime and everyone gets to go last sometime. If you are up first, you'll get a little less on this stage, but the next one you should be up last on, so if you get up and past or set steel, you;ll gert plenty of time to see the course again. Also, generally if the RO is doing his stuff, he'll tell everyone else to stay off the COF while pasting so the next shooter gets additional playtime.

My experiance, yours may be different.

Jim Norman

[folsoml]

Line-up, go through the stage and EXIT OUT THE REAR so that the rest of the squad can go through without running into you.

This is great if you have that kind of stage...one that has a definite start point and end point. If you have something like "See Rock City II" from Area 6, that will not work. We had 12 or 13 people in a small triangle that was the shooting area. If I remember correctly, you had five ports through which to engage the targets. While scouting it, you could not be positive if you were seeing the same target from different ports unless you went back and forth from one port to another. There was no "starting point or ending point." You kind of started at the point of the triangle, but from there, some people went left first, some went right, others still went to the middle port.

This was also a match were the "no walk throughs" rule was enforced. No one could go on any range before the official "walk through."

[ima45dv8]

This was also a match were the "no walk throughs" rule was enforced. No one could go on any range before the official "walk through."

Next year it will not be in effect.

[davidball]

What Steve said . . .

. . . to perform well in this sport on all but the simplest stages (classifier and standard type) one must "program" the stage mentally. This program must be etched into the brain in the greatest detail possible. It is NOT just a matter of "in what order do I shoot the targets." One must program EVERY hit on EVERY target, see EVERY reload in detail, know what foot goes where and when and why . . . 5 minutes is not NEARLY enough for those of us still in the early stages of learning this process.

(Yes, I have BOTH the Bassham book AND tape . . . and it works.)

[jkushner1]

Do you want to shoot the course of fire, or do you want to own it?

I want to make it my b*tch.

That takes a little time.

SA

After two years of this, a lot of Reading (Steve A, Brian E, Saul K, all Burkett DVD Media) and a good amount of dryfire practice, I am finally starting to decipher what I need to do (mainly in production 11/10/10/10....) averaging around 10 minutes per stage. I can say that yesterdays match was the first ever where I saw one or two time saving tactics on 6 of the 7 stages we shot. For me as a C shooter the savings were closer probably to 5-10 seconds on some of the stages (not like an A/M or GM where .3 seconds is a huge gain). If IDPA is checkers, IPSC is chess - We need the time, and you will too once the bug bites you.

[eerw]

I want to make it my b*tch.

OK..LOL..

Since USPSA is mostly freestyly..it take a little more time to 1. develop a plan..2. commit the plan to conscious memory..3. commit the plan to the subconscious for performance..

the many walkthroughs are shooters trying to build in the memory for target position, foot position, reloads, movement...some people can do it quickly..others take a little more time..

true it takes more time..but I find in IDPA..it is pretty much a certain target order and the idea of freestyle is nil.

Edited October 25, 2005 by eerw

[Merlin Orr]

Do you want to shoot the course of fire, or do you want to own it?

I want to make it my b*tch. ...

SA

A truly eloquent and succinct reply!

[Mousekiller]

You really want to see things get confused, throw a lefty into the mix.. They always want to shoot stuff backwards There i am going right to left to see the walkthrough and everyone else is going left to right.. I say "excuse me" a lot..

Actually as most have said 5 mins on some stage seems like it's not nearly enough time, and your standing there going 'OH PLEASE TWO MORE MINUTES !! look on your face " cause a plan on how to shoot the stage just ain't happening... on others it's not needed.. Most matches i've been to on easier stages if the squad is ok with it we generally tell the CRO were good and start shooting instead of waiting for the entire 5 minutes to be completed..

Shooter expierence plays a major role in how one goes through the 5 minutes in my opinion.. guys that have "been there done that" generally have a pretty good idea after the first walk through after that it's confirmation and detail work..

Jeff.

[Carmoney]

I showed up a day early at an area match this year and happened to notice one high-profile shooter take an unbelievably long time after LAMR to run through his complex ritual. He did it every stage I watched him shoot.

Sight black, rosin bag, toweling off, airgunning everything from the starting position, more toweling, gets in position, does his draw and sight picture and dry-snap, more sight black and rosin, then loads and holsters, then more airgunning, more toweling..............AAAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!

(It drove me insane, and I wasn't even shooting that day!)

I won't name him here, but every time I see his name or photo anywhere, I can't help but think, "Selfish rotten little bastard." Which is too bad, because he's probably a perfectly nice guy otherwise. But if every shooter had been allowed to go through all that nonsense, they would still be shooting that match.

Mike

[cliffwalsh]

Mike,

You can say it was Dan. Everyone knows.....

[davidball]

I think Steve may have introduced a new phrase into the IPSC lexicon. Instead of finishing the stage walk-through with

"Do you have any questions? . . . You have five minutes to look over the stage."

the CRO will now say

"Do you have any questions? . . . You have five minutes to make this stage your b*tch."

[AK74]

Haven't used rosin or sight black in over a decade and I have never dry fired during the LAMR.

But I used to have a ritual that included a practice draw, multiple sight pictures and going over my complete game plan in my head at the LAMR.

I found that any distraction or interruption of my ritual could result in me screwing up the stage.

Currently I simply load and holster, don't even take a sight picture.

For me the benefits are that I start more relaxed and nothing can distract me, I have no problem remembering my game plan that I went over when I was on deck, I can talk to the RO, hear what's going on around me and never feel rushed.

At lest for me a long LAMR ritual did more harm then good, and no one now thinks I am a self centered ass for spending more time taking a sight picture then it takes to shoot the course of fire.

Edited October 25, 2005 by AK74

[pskys2]

So, Mike all I need to do is "Airgun and rehearse" a little more to get under your skin and get you out of your game? Another trick to learn.

I like to get going pretty quick after the LAMR, the longer I wait the more confused I get! HA!

Seriously on the more complicated stages, it sometimes helps to find a spot to see the "WHOLE" course (though sometimes it's impossible). The other trick I use is when it gets too complicated, too short of time to figure it out, then K.I.S.S. Simplify and try to concentrate on shooting, not gaming. Easier to do with an Open/Limited gun though. It's real tough on us Round Gun guys.

But, then I'm not trying to win, or keep, a sponsor. Make a living off of this, nor impress a girl friend. I've seen all of that screw with a perfectly good competitor/person.

The best are the "TRUE" Surprise Courses. Went through one in a semi-lit indoor range where they set up several targets with T-shirts on (before IDPA). Only 2 or 3 guys, out of 40+ engaged the "WHOLE" Target. Most like me took head shots, even though told there was no hardcover or Hostages. Just saw clear cardboard and went for it. Pretty interesting.

LOVE IT! Make this stage my B***h, but then if you're not careful you may be the B***h!

Dave

[Thomas Moore]

gotta add my 2 cents.

in idpa there is an 18 round max for stages and you're told to shoot it a certain way. ie not freestyle.

in uspsa granted you can have small stages and those could or counldn't require a 5 min walk through. but then there is the 32 round stage and a multitude of ports and shooting positions that require a deep thought process to be fast as possible.

[Pact-Man]

Clearly I need to shoot more USPSA! All points well taken, thank you all-esp Steve! LOL

[Steve Anderson]

My first year of IPSC shooting, Flex would talk to me about stages from last week's club match and I could not remember them at all.

Now, I can airgun just about every stage I've shot this year, major or local.

If you want to perform your best, you have to have a plan. How long will that take?

The juice is worth the squeeze.

SA

[Bigbadaboom]

5 Minutes is not long enough.