Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Hi all, I'm new to reloading (getting ready to do my first batch), and I'm trying to be super careful with the powder. I'm using 147 grain lead bullets, and Hodgdon TiteGroup powder. The Lee chart says the max I should use is 3.3 grains (2.7CC), but the Hodgdon label says 3.8 grains is the max I should use (3.2cc). Just to be safe, I'd like to get some input from those of you who have reloaded .38 special. What's a good amount (CC) to use with 147 grain lead bullets? (I'm using lead bullets because that's all I could find! As you know, everyone is sold out of just about everything). I don't want to load the max powder load, but something that shoots well, accurate with minimal recoil. Any advice appreciated! Thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lll Otto lll Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Are you using Lee powder dippers? If so, do you have a scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belus Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Titegroup isn't a great choice for a first time reloader, but I get that options are limited. On the other hand, 38spl is a great cartridge to start on. Are you using Lee powder dippers? I only ask because you brought up volumes. A scale is very important and you shouldn't start until you have one. Do you have a reloading manual or book? It's a good idea to cross reference different sources like you're doing, but the books will discuss how you approach load development and give you start conditions. Starting charge weight for your components is 2.7gr according to Hodgdon. Start there and see how you like it. Also expect the load to be much smokier than you're used to. Accuracy will have little to do with charge weight and will depend more on bullet diameter and weight. You won't be able to guess at an accurate load until you get those first starting loads shot at the range anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 147 round nose, semi wadcutter, straight wadcutter, flat nose? Need to know what type of bullet as some seat deeper than others when your looking up load data. Edited October 2, 2020 by Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks, Otto, belus, and Farmer, for the replies! Bullets are 147 Grain round nose. I just have the one powder dipper ( .5cc size ) that came with the Lee .38 Special reloader kit, and I do not (yet) have a scale -- looks like I need to get one of those asap, before I start reloading. As far as the dipper, it appears that I would need 4 & 1/4 scoops of the .5cc dipper to get to 2.7 grains (the Lee formula shows 2.7 grains X .0848 for the powder, equals 2.2cc). That looks like an awful lot of powder. Is that correct? (BTW, the TiteGroup was the only powder available, which is why I'm using that). Thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks, Otto, belus, and Farmer, for the replies! Bullets are 147 Grain round nose. I just have the one powder dipper ( .5cc size ) that came with the Lee .38 Special reloader kit, and I do not (yet) have a scale -- looks like I need to get one of those asap, before I start reloading. As far as the dipper, it appears that I would need 4 & 1/4 scoops of the .5cc dipper to get to 2.7 grains (the Lee formula shows 2.7 grains X .0848 for the powder, equals 2.2cc). That looks like an awful lot of powder. Is that correct? (BTW, the TiteGroup was the only powder available, which is why I'm using that). Thanks..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Here's a photo of the bullets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 I think you need to drop back and punt. Normally lee packages those load kits with a single scoop designed for a common powder for that caliber to load a mild load. I am guessing bullseye or 231, as they are the old school 38 powders. You are fixing to put over 24 grs of tightgroup in that case... Need to watch your decimals or you went the wrong way. .5cc of tightgroup is 5.6 grs. Tight group is a very low volume to the gr powder and not really well suited for the Lee scoops. I bet if you got some bullseye, unique or 231, .5cc would be right on the nose. I started with the same thing, loaded lots of rifle and pistol ammo with the scoop set in a single stage press, here is lees chart. http://www.castpics.net/subsite/Manuals/Dippers.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 NOOOO! STOP! 32 minutes ago, Radman17 said: (the Lee formula shows 2.7 grains X .0848 for the powder, equals 2.2cc) You are not handling the Lee VMD correctly or even doing the arithmetic right. 2.7x.0848 = 0.23 CC, the decimal point matters. A .5 CC dipper is listed to deliver 5.9 grains of Titegroup which is an overload for a 146 gr .38 Special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lll Otto lll Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, Radman17 said: I just have the one powder dipper ( .5cc size ) that came with the Lee .38 Special reloader kit, and I do not (yet) have a scale -- looks like I need to get one of those asap, before I start reloading. Ok, that's what I thought. Here's my suggestion, throw the dipper in the trash can, buy a powder scale and find some other powder to use besides Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyVey Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Get a scale!! Make sure your dipping spoon has the correct size. Measure your volume in the dipper and then weigh it!! Make sure you can reliable do this for the reloads. Or get a press with a decent powder measure! I used Titewad (yes, Titewad) and it is a very soft recoiling powder, I use 3-3.2 gr for 158 bullets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Thanks Joe4d and Jim, *After* fixing the math (my mistake), it appears that I would need an approximately .25cc scoop of the TiteGroup powder to equal 2.7 grains. Smallest scoop I've seen is a .3cc, so to get the correct amount I should use half of a .5cc scoop, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 Yeah, I will use the scale instead of the scoop (as soon as I can get the scale). As for other brand powders, *no one* that I have found has any in stock so I'm stuck with using the TiteGroup for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radman17 Posted October 2, 2020 Author Share Posted October 2, 2020 THANK YOU ALL for helping me avoid what might have been an unfortunate situation. On the plus side, these forums are invaluable for getting advise from people with experience; on the negative side, this obviously isn't the best time to try to get into reloading -- but besides no powder, no primers, etc., no one has any ammo either. Otherwise I'd just be buying off the shelf like before. The scale has been ordered, so I'll put the reloading project on the back burner for now. Thanks again to all.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestardiver Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 You might look at a powder throw as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 the decision to get a scale is sound. and this is said to help understand why the dipper is a limited option as well as why it is an option. the automatic powder measures operate by volume. you set them by adjusting them and testing the 'drop' on a scale. what powder fits into that volume is what goes into the case. the dipper is intended to be an all or nothing device. fill it and strike off with a blade. so you get only what is in the dipper. and yes it is intended for a popular powder and a medium/safe load recipe. the limit here is that you can't make any small changes. I think of the dippers as a hold over from rifle reloading. lee sells something called an auto-disk. avoid it. aim at the auto-drum. if you are doing press based case filling... pistol ammo is just small enough that you will want to avoid weighing each charge. and you will want more ammo, so again, time spent weighing will get tiresome. all that is to point out why you are getting the advice to find alternate solutions. the fun part is now you can make your own dippers for any powder. epoxy a 22 rimfire to a bamboo skewer and dip,strike, and weigh. file the 22 case shorter until you get the weight you want. you may need a 22 magnum case, or such. I decided on the auto drum... miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) OP, buy this scale. They work great https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESHDGOI?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share Edited October 2, 2020 by ysrracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Oh yeah, and Titegroup and .38 special is not ideal for beginner reloaders. I'm guessing you could probably quadruple charge a .38 special case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwbsig Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 2 hours ago, ysrracer said: OP, buy this scale. They work great https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ESHDGOI?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share I’ve had one of these for a year or a little longer and it’s been spot on a very good little scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4n2t0 Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) Titegroup is a great powder, very versatile. All reloading is dangerous, regardless of powder choice. One of the most dangerous things you can do (squib) involves little to no powder whatsoever (can't blame that one on Titegroup). Titegroup doesn't make mistakes, reloaders do. Take it slow, ask a lot of questions, be safe and you'll do just fine. P.S. It's good to hear you got a scale. Edited October 4, 2020 by 4n2t0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhotoRecon Posted October 3, 2020 Share Posted October 3, 2020 (edited) I agree with 4n2to... Edited October 3, 2020 by PhotoRecon Clarification... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farmer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 I was taught that on a single stage press every time you do an operation with your brass you change it’s position in the loading tray. Example is when you start, load the brass in tray with mouth up. Size a piece and put it back, primer up. When done sizing all of them clean a primer pocket and put that one back mouth up. When done with all of them, then prime one and put it back primer up. When your done priming all of them, All of your primed brass in the block should be primers up. This is important because when you start charging the cases with powder you have to place them back in the block mouth up for obvious reasons. This gives you a clear view of which ones are charged and which are not. It really helps to keep you from double charging a case. I know many skip a few steps but as long as you always start with primers up when you start charging, you shouldn’t have a problem. As far as the dippers, don’t throw them away. I use mine all the time to scoop and trickle powder into my scale pan when working up a new load. Sorry for the long winded post and hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miranda Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Farmer, I like the post. I started on a turret press and so I did not learn that technique. it goes with rifle cartridges without a doubt. There are decidedly good benefits from that effort and time. My 223 reloading has given me a different perspective on reloading. 9mm rounds can be done quickly. the rifle stuff requires more case prep work and time to run through the press. I used to wonder why small funnels and pointy weighing pans were prized by reloaders. I do not puzzle over those items now. pistols and ammo does not hold rifle accuracy. plus in practice and competition the volume is (I am guessing here from what I have read here) about 10 times rifle. so a quicker way to reload is good. making a dipper for a given pistol recipe is a good idea to add to your reloading method. miranda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 The scale measures grains, grams, ounces... Turn it on Set it to grains Place an empty case on it Press "tare" (this zeros it out) Drop the powder in the case Weigh it again, that's your powder charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysrracer Posted October 4, 2020 Share Posted October 4, 2020 Just now, ysrracer said: The scale measures grains, grams, ounces... Turn it on Set it to grains Place an empty case on it Press "tare" (this zeros it out) Drop the powder in the case Weigh it again, that's your powder charge This supposes you have a powder measure. P.S. Buy a powder measure if you don't have one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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