Maxamundi's 60 Day PCC Countdown

[MLS2GO]

Fabulous info! Thanks for posting these. 

[ck1]

2 hours ago, Maxamundo said:

I'm curious, do the Green MRO's get as bright as the reds? For the holosuns, I've always felt the max setting in green was about 1 setting dimmer than the max setting on red. Not how your eye perceives it, but just how big the dot gets as it's bloomed out in the sunlight. It would be cool to try a very very bright green dot.

 

(First off, just watched vid #7... SickAF lol!)

I only had the 2 Green MRO’s out of their boxes to check out for seriously mere minutes before I knew they were a no-go due to the magnification/fisheye and put them away for return (I ordered a second one just to be sure the first one I got wasn’t just bad luck, wonky, or some sort of QC fluke, and then actually found another one a couple days later in a LGS that had the same issues). That said, IIRC as far as brightness, I kinda felt the same thing you said about the red ones; setting “5” was almost legit but not quite there, then “6” jumped to looking like too much and got blown out. I’d say “6” on the green MRO was definitely brighter than the green 510 maxed out though, but I could be mistaken because the MRO’s “green” is a bunch more yellow than Holosun’s green...

 

FWIW, though you said you aren’t a fan of the Aimpoint micro-sized sights, while not ideal, kind of out of necessity I’ve been running a Holosun micro-clone because I can mount it lower for an MPX (an Absolute is Lower-third on the MPX, so lower is really more like an “absolute” height) and I managed to find literally one dealer on eBay who had/has their 403R in green with the rotary-knob adjustment (think it’s supposed to be euro market only). The thing blazes and is easily the brightest green dot I’ve seen yet; setting “9” is as bright as the green 510 maxed out, and it goes up to “12”! Just wish it was housed in a bigger window...

Which is why I’d like to check out an XPS2-1 in Green or might buy another Green 510 when I can, I think going to higher mounted sight then I'd like might be worth the trade-off to have a bigger window that's a little easier/faster to get behind. Though, I don’t know if it’s that the rotary-knob has less tech in the way w/o solar and the other bells and whistles or whatever (no shake-awake, no auto mode) but seems Holosun already has the technology to make a green dot brighter if they wanted, because the rotary one is way brighter than the 510 and a couple other of their green micros I have.

 

(Crappy iphone pics. My kitchen is pretty bright, but no match for the dot lol.)

Edited April 27, 2020 by ck1
pics

[Maxamundo]

8 hours ago, ck1 said:

FWIW, though you said you aren’t a fan of the Aimpoint micro-sized sights, while not ideal, kind of out of necessity I’ve been running a Holosun micro-clone because I can mount it lower for an MPX (an Absolute is Lower-third on the MPX, so lower is really more like an “absolute” height) and I managed to find literally one dealer on eBay who had/has their 403R in green with the rotary-knob adjustment (think it’s supposed to be euro market only). The thing blazes and is easily the brightest green dot I’ve seen yet; setting “9” is as bright as the green 510 maxed out, and it goes up to “12”! Just wish it was housed in a bigger window...

Interesting, that's cool the tube version is brighter. Have you tried just moving the stock tube higher on the MPX? It has a picatinny rail on the back where you can adjust the position. But otherwise, I would like to see a low mount for the 510 so that it can be more easily used on shotguns/AK/Ruger/MPX with lower stock positions than traditional ARs.

[ck1]

3 hours ago, Maxamundo said:

Have you tried just moving the stock tube higher on the MPX? It has a picatinny rail on the back where you can adjust the position. But otherwise, I would like to see a low mount for the 510 so that it can be more easily used on shotguns/AK/Ruger/MPX with lower stock positions than traditional ARs.

 

Yeah, I've tried mounting the stock up and down on the rear pic rail a few times now, actually started with the MPX with the stock/adapter mounted higher covering most of the pic because that's actually how it looks "right", but something just kept feeling off and wonky to me coming from a traditional AR9 PCC... all my doubles and multiple shot strings kept printing moving downward (opposite of normal) while I would try to manage the dot bounce like normal looking through the glass, and I couldn't really put my finger on what was messing with me. One day I was watching some vids of MPX shooters a lot better than me (like Taran and a couple others) and when I got a look at their guns I noticed they were mounting their adapter/stocks a pic notch down from where I was running it and the lightbulb kinda went off that maybe that was something worth trying... It's actually easy to see if you lay an MPX out along a straightedge (like the edge of a bench or table), and it becomes pretty obvious that mounting the adapter/stock a pic notch lower gets the stock more in-line with the bore, when mounted higher the tube sits like 1" higher than the barrel. Anyways, tried shooting it with the adapter/stock mounted lower, and poof, all the wonky-ness went away and the whole gun just felt a zillion times better. I've tried going back and forth a few times, but IMHO it's no contest, with the adapter/stock mounted higher it just feels too weird and is too easy to get overly on top of the gun when it recoils, feels like "going over the handlebars" to me when trying to go fast. In hindsight, it makes sense because while the MPX is patterned and similar to an AR, the recoil system is riding on top of the bolt, not behind it, so the upper receivers are more different than at first glance because physics/science.

So a 510-type sight that could be mounted lower is exactly what I'd want in a perfect world lol...

[Maxamundo]

18 minutes ago, ck1 said:

 

Yeah, I've tried mounting the stock up and down on the rear pic rail a few times now, actually started with the MPX with the stock/adapter mounted higher covering most of the pic because that's actually how it looks "right", but something just kept feeling off and wonky to me coming from a traditional AR9 PCC... all my doubles and multiple shot strings kept printing moving downward (opposite of normal) while I would try to manage the dot bounce like normal looking through the glass, and I couldn't really put my finger on what was messing with me. One day I was watching some vids of MPX shooters a lot better than me (like Taran and a couple others) and when I got a look at their guns I noticed they were mounting their adapter/stocks a pic notch down from where I was running it and the lightbulb kinda went off that maybe that was something worth trying... It's actually easy to see if you lay an MPX out along a straightedge (like the edge of a bench or table), and it becomes pretty obvious that mounting the adapter/stock a pic notch lower gets the stock more in-line with the bore, when mounted higher the tube sits like 1" higher than the barrel. Anyways, tried shooting it with the adapter/stock mounted lower, and poof, all the wonky-ness went away and the whole gun just felt a zillion times better. I've tried going back and forth a few times, but IMHO it's no contest, with the adapter/stock mounted higher it just feels too weird and is too easy to get overly on top of the gun when it recoils, feels like "going over the handlebars" to me when trying to go fast. In hindsight, it makes sense because while the MPX is patterned and similar to an AR, the recoil system is riding on top of the bolt, not behind it, so the upper receivers are more different than at first glance because physics/science.

So a 510-type sight that could be mounted lower is exactly what I'd want in a perfect world lol...

 

 

Thanks, this is valuable info for me. I have a brand new MPX PCC sitting in the safe that is waiting for its detailed review (along with a few other PCCs) and I'll be sure to test that myself and mention if I find something similar. Probably why Taran's guns are set up with the stock lower and the MRO using the low mount.

[ck1]

1 minute ago, Maxamundo said:

 

 

Thanks, this is valuable info for me. I have a brand new MPX PCC sitting in the safe that is waiting for its detailed review (along with a few other PCCs) and I'll be sure to test that myself and mention if I find something similar. Probably why Taran's guns are set up with the stock lower and the MRO using the low mount.

 

Awesome! Can't wait to hear what you think..? 

FWIW, I've been really lucky with mine from a reliability standpoint so far (16" PCC model w/ Hiperfire 243G/Reflex), which has me feeling like a unicorn because of the MPX's reputation, I kinda keep waiting for it to crap out on me but mine has been nails... I am actually the complete opposite of a Sig-fan, I don't really dig their stuff mostly, but so far so good through 12k+  just adding lube to keep the bolt real wet and really only one single full-on detail cleaning.

[Maxamundo]

14 minutes ago, ck1 said:

 

Awesome! Can't wait to hear what you think..? 

FWIW, I've been really lucky with mine from a reliability standpoint so far (16" PCC model w/ Hiperfire 243G/Reflex), which has me feeling like a unicorn because of the MPX's reputation, I kinda keep waiting for it to crap out on me but mine has been nails... I am actually the complete opposite of a Sig-fan, I don't really dig their stuff mostly, but so far so good through 12k+  just adding lube to keep the bolt real wet and really only one single full-on detail cleaning.

So far with all my MPX experience, I've been impressed with the softness of recoil, but very unimpressed with the controllability. The recoil is soft, but it seems to "do what it wants" for lack of a better term. I feel like with my match guns, I can make them shoot exactly how I want by changing grip and stance tensions. With the MPX, I feel that even with large changes to my grip and stance, I still get the exact same squishy dot movement and I don't feel in control at all.

[ck1]

1 hour ago, Maxamundo said:

So far with all my MPX experience, I've been impressed with the softness of recoil, but very unimpressed with the controllability. The recoil is soft, but it seems to "do what it wants" for lack of a better term. I feel like with my match guns, I can make them shoot exactly how I want by changing grip and stance tensions. With the MPX, I feel that even with large changes to my grip and stance, I still get the exact same squishy dot movement and I don't feel in control at all.

 

Yeah, I've noticed the MPX's dot movement being a little weird to get used to also. I think the recoil softness has something to do with it, and I think you're on to something saying it "does what it wants"; to me, it almost feels like the MPX "sling-shots" or "squirts" the rounds out and just sits in your hands, more so than moving straight back/up under recoil like a blowback gun. It's different for sure.

Might sound ridiculous, and granted and I'm probably not even at half your skill-level, but more and more I feel like I can shoot the MPX better the less I try... like the more relaxed I am, the better my hits, if that makes sense? Like I really don't use much muscle at all with it and just kinda hold up the gun, point the dot and pull the trigger. Seems the more "dead fish" I can be, the better the hits lol. Like just having the stock on my body and holding the gun is all it takes... it's the weirdest thing, the more relaxed I get, the less the dot moves, if I'm super-relaxed and am just holding it right and "in the zone" it seems almost like the dot/gun doesn't move much at all...  Totally counterintuitive lol.

And this isn't really shooting the softest loads either, I'm actually working my way through my third 1000 of  Impact Ammo's 135gr HP MPX-specific load, and while it certainly isn't hot, it's energetic enough to run the MPX pretty quick, I dig it.

 

To me, shooting a blowback gun is much more "deliberate" than how I shoot the MPX... I actually have to remind myself to not try and force it too much and then it shoots flat as hell for me.

 

Anyways, maybe something worth giving a try once you play with one again? I'd really dig hearing your thoughts on what a better shooter like you'd get if you maybe dialed back to like 50% from what you're used to with a blowback gun and see how it goes..?  

Edited April 27, 2020 by ck1

[Maxamundo]

 

[egd5]

What you said at the end about having the ability to shoot without having to watch your feet applies to me. I can't. At the beginning of the video I saw that, for me, it would be better shooting those two coming out of the position rather than coming into it. I would already be semi stable and in a shooting position rather than trying to get stable and still shoot.

Having said all that, it still doesn't mean that I not work on acquiring that skill though. I'm just not there.

[RaylanGivens]

Some excellent videos here Max...  I think they present better on YouTube than on Instagram...  Easier to go back to your earlier videos...  can run them full screen...  and can watch them in different levels of slow motion...  very helpful on videos (like #08 above) where the footwork is important/critical...  Thanks!

 

[Bdh821]

Can you make a video on how to do a .10 split?  Your technique on bump firing... stuff like that, please and thank you

[Bdh821]

On 4/27/2020 at 4:17 PM, ck1 said:

 

Yeah, I've noticed the MPX's dot movement being a little weird to get used to also. I think the recoil softness has something to do with it, and I think you're on to something saying it "does what it wants"; to me, it almost feels like the MPX "sling-shots" or "squirts" the rounds out and just sits in your hands, more so than moving straight back/up under recoil like a blowback gun. It's different for sure.

Might sound ridiculous, and granted and I'm probably not even at half your skill-level, but more and more I feel like I can shoot the MPX better the less I try... like the more relaxed I am, the better my hits, if that makes sense? Like I really don't use much muscle at all with it and just kinda hold up the gun, point the dot and pull the trigger. Seems the more "dead fish" I can be, the better the hits lol. Like just having the stock on my body and holding the gun is all it takes... it's the weirdest thing, the more relaxed I get, the less the dot moves, if I'm super-relaxed and am just holding it right and "in the zone" it seems almost like the dot/gun doesn't move much at all...

I actually agree with this statement.  I was practicing classifiers prior to covid, specifically el pres, and could 100% it with ease if I kinda softly held the gun instead of trying to control it like a 12 gauge.  I tend to really clamp down on the MPX to control it like a shotgun, but have noticed the softer I hold it the more control I can get.  It's probably also due to holding it so tight that I'm shaking is my guess?

 

I will have to try lowering my stock down a notch to feel recoil impulse.  I actually tried it the other day, but it felt weird when dry firing so I put it back in the factory location.  

[ck1]

2 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

I will have to try lowering my stock down a notch to feel recoil impulse.  I actually tried it the other day, but it felt weird when dry firing so I put it back in the factory location.  

 

Yeah, give it a try and see what you get..? FYI/FWIW, I'm talking about the MPX using an adapter+buffer tube+AR stock... When you say "factory position" IDK if you mean with the factory folder it comes with(?) ...have no idea how that feels (I took that folder off mine first thing and never shot it that way). 

[Bdh821]

25 minutes ago, ck1 said:

 

Yeah, give it a try and see what you get..? FYI/FWIW, I'm talking about the MPX using an adapter+buffer tube+AR stock... When you say "factory position" IDK if you mean with the factory folder it comes with(?) ...have no idea how that feels (I took that folder off mine first thing and never shot it that way). 

 

 

I’m using a buffer tube conversion as well. I meant to say the original location of the stock on the rear pic rail. I’ll try and lower my buffer tube 1 notch and blast it. I just put a deltapoint pro back on my MPX with the lowest mount.  I like the cheek weld whereas with the lowered stock it was more of a chin weld. 

 

I shot the MPX competition when I first got in in original form. The factory stock setup sucks

[ck1]

22 minutes ago, Bdh821 said:

 

 

I’m using a buffer tube conversion as well. I meant to say the original location of the stock on the rear pic rail. I’ll try and lower my buffer tube 1 notch and blast it. I just put a deltapoint pro back on my MPX with the lowest mount.  I like the cheek weld whereas with the lowered stock it was more of a chin weld. 

 

I shot the MPX competition when I first got in in original form. The factory stock setup sucks

 

Yeah, IMO lowering the stock makes a big difference with the MPX... but it sure doesn't make getting the sight at the right height any easier lol (as far as optics/mounts, it's an AR world, so most of them are too high on the MPX).

After I found that the 510-height didn't work for me on the MPX, I was running an older Holosun micro side-circle-battery-cover sight (exact same height as an Aimpoint Micro) on an ADM low mount and kind of loved it, great natural cheek weld... but the rotary-knob Holosun micro I'm running now is like the side-battery-tray models and sits up a little higher (about +3mm) and I'm not sure if I like it as much or if it'm just not completely used to it (because I ran the prior setup for a while). I know its only +3mm, but it feels different to me (though incidentally, the higher "+3mm" Holosun + the ADM mount is exactly the same height as an MRO on it's low mount, and it sure looks like Taran Butler runs it just fine that way lol).

IDK, I may try an RMR-sized pistol Holosun on a low mount and see how that goes... I have never noticed the "tube effect" people talk about with the micros, but maybe the pistol sight might seem more "open" and finding a mount to put it at the right height might be easier... work in progress  lol

[Bdh821]

6 hours ago, ck1 said:

 

Yeah, IMO lowering the stock makes a big difference with the MPX... but it sure doesn't make getting the sight at the right height any easier lol (as far as optics/mounts, it's an AR world, so most of them are too high on the MPX).

After I found that the 510-height didn't work for me on the MPX, I was running an older Holosun micro side-circle-battery-cover sight (exact same height as an Aimpoint Micro) on an ADM low mount and kind of loved it, great natural cheek weld... but the rotary-knob Holosun micro I'm running now is like the side-battery-tray models and sits up a little higher (about +3mm) and I'm not sure if I like it as much or if it'm just not completely used to it (because I ran the prior setup for a while). I know its only +3mm, but it feels different to me (though incidentally, the higher "+3mm" Holosun + the ADM mount is exactly the same height as an MRO on it's low mount, and it sure looks like Taran Butler runs it just fine that way lol).

IDK, I may try an RMR-sized pistol Holosun on a low mount and see how that goes... I have never noticed the "tube effect" people talk about with the micros, but maybe the pistol sight might seem more "open" and finding a mount to put it at the right height might be easier... work in progress  lol

 

The Sig Romeo 3 Max comes with a pic rail mount. It is probably the lowest mount I’ve seen for a microdot.  

[avastcosmicarena]

Semi-related to the softness of the MPX, I'm very interested in what the recoil impulse will be like on the Angstadt Arms MDP-9 when it comes out.

It's essentially an AR9 with the roller delayed blowback recoil system & barrel of an MP5. In stock form, it would require turning into an SBR to use in competition, but you could probably swap the short barrel to a 16" MP5 barrel or maybe a 12" or 10" MP5 barrel with a pinned & welded comp, like those Brekke custom comps.

It could possibly make for a really interesting competition setup. The roller delayed mechanism is supposed to have a much smoother/softer recoil impulse. The only thing I wonder about is whether or not the delay of it would somehow be a negative vs a well tuned straight blowback AR9... like, perhaps the cycling is slower and the dot doesn't come back on target as fast. Not sure. Would have to try it. I guess it depends on how much the dot moves to begin with.

[caspian guy]

1 hour ago, avastcosmicarena said:

Semi-related to the softness of the MPX, I'm very interested in what the recoil impulse will be like on the Angstadt Arms MDP-9 when it comes out.

It's essentially an AR9 with the roller delayed blowback recoil system & barrel of an MP5. In stock form, it would require turning into an SBR to use in competition, but you could probably swap the short barrel to a 16" MP5 barrel or maybe a 12" or 10" MP5 barrel with a pinned & welded comp, like those Brekke custom comps.

It could possibly make for a really interesting competition setup. The roller delayed mechanism is supposed to have a much smoother/softer recoil impulse. The only thing I wonder about is whether or not the delay of it would somehow be a negative vs a well tuned straight blowback AR9... like, perhaps the cycling is slower and the dot doesn't come back on target as fast. Not sure. Would have to try it. I guess it depends on how much the dot moves to begin with.

Betting those are a proprietary roller locked barrel/barrel extension that fits in an AR upper  (Ie an  MP-5 style barrel rather than an actual MP-5 barrel because the recesses the hk bolt head locks into are part of the trunion which the barrel is pressed into not the barrel itself)

Edited April 30, 2020 by caspian guy

[ck1]

16 hours ago, Bdh821 said:

 

The Sig Romeo 3 Max comes with a pic rail mount. It is probably the lowest mount I’ve seen for a microdot.  

Man, those Romeo 3’s (XL & MAX) look great! Lots of glass & no bulk. Problem is for me, besides the mount/height caveats with the MPX, I’ve managed to complicate things even more by falling in love with green over red, so those are a no-go for me for now

I kinda wish I could unsee the green dots sometimes because there’s so much more out there in red... but for me it’s a game changer, don’t think I’m buying any more sights in red...

 

For the guys talking about the roller-delayed stuff; I’m hoping it’ll be cool because the MP5 recoil impulse is awesome... but I guess we’ll see how it goes when they come available...

 

For the record, I think I mainly went to the MPX because I’m missing an important part of the blowback PCC recipe: reloading your own stuff. Using off-the-shelf ammo one just orders, even match or PCC specific type stuff, can make really dialing a blowback gun just right kind of tough... I kinda felt like a cat chasing its tail for a while because I was trying all kinds of different buffer setups, and when I’d get something dialed I’d run out of the specific ammo I was using, or it would be out of stock or whatever, and then it was back to the drawing board for me...

Ammo changes with the MPX aren’t nearly as big of a difference as long as it’s not too soft. There’s not a huge difference between the “match” MPX-specific stuff I get from Impact Ammo and regular old 124gr S&B FMJ’s, the MPX stays relatively soft either way.

I’ve been avoiding reloading for years now because 9mm has stayed relatively inexpensive, and with what’s going on now and components being sold out everywhere, this is probably the worst time to try and jump in... but I think for me it’s getting to the point where I’d like to experiment with that part of the recipe sooner rather than later (which is probably a “duh” to most of the guys on here lol).

[Bdh821]

I went with the MPX because it’s factory lefty friendly. The majority of these PCC lowers don’t have a lefty friendly magazine release button. Which is also why I don’t use my 8” SBR PCC anymore. That was a big waste of money. 

[Maxamundo]

10 hours ago, ck1 said:

 

For the record, I think I mainly went to the MPX because I’m missing an important part of the blowback PCC recipe: reloading your own stuff. Using off-the-shelf ammo one just orders, even match or PCC specific type stuff, can make really dialing a blowback gun just right kind of tough... I kinda felt like a cat chasing its tail for a while because I was trying all kinds of different buffer setups, and when I’d get something dialed I’d run out of the specific ammo I was using, or it would be out of stock or whatever, and then it was back to the drawing board for me...

 

Good point

[Maxamundo]

 

[ck1]

I really appreciate you posting these videos Max, it really shows how deep you examine all the little things that add up to big results. I don’t know if I’ve ever seen any other top shooter share as much insight into their training regime and equipment details, whether it be that they were concerned they would be giving up a competitive edge or whatever, or that they just didn’t care to. Anyways, you being so humble about it is humbling. Thanks

[Blockader]

I just started watching these. Thank you for doing this project, it is very generous of you.