Broken Firing Pin

[IVC]

Yesterday I went to the range to check the new load in S&W 929 (was playing with OAL to get one of my CZ-s to pass the plunk test) and all I got was "click-click-click." It was with Winchester primers so I thought for a moment that it was the primers (I use Federals GM 100 for Revo-loads, this was just to chrono, so an occasional misfire wasn't a concern). When I looked at the rounds in the moonclip, there was no marks whatsoever. Sure enough, the firing pin broke. 

 

Here is the picture of both sides. It's a TKC extended firing pin that was installed by TKC when they did "the works." 

 

I've been dry firing it quite a bit in the past few days, working on transitions, but not nearly enough that I would expect it to break. Let's say that it was likely less than a few thousand dry fire trigger pulls (my primary dry fire routine is with a Limited gun). 

 

Is this normal? I've heard of firing pins breaking, just not of higher end ones and so soon. 

[Tom Revo]

Are you dry firing with dummy ammo to absorb some of the firing pin movement forward and not bottoming out the firing pin stroke each time the hammer falls.

 

TK

[IVC]

No, I'm doing it the pedestrian way - dummy rounds with no primer, so the abuse is clearly there.

 

I was just surprised that it's sort of a "common knowledge" that the semi-autos can be dry fired millions of times with no ill effects, while revolvers look like being much more delicate. Not sure what I should expect in terms of durability. I don't mind replacing firing pin if that means I can practice with realistic ammo - various snap caps usually won't even stay in the moon clips and I have 0.040 from TKC for a reason - to make the reloads faster... So, it's either realistic reloads and replacing firing pins, or sloppy reloads and saving the pin. 

[revoman]

Fill your primer cups on your dummy rounds with rubber dip. The stuff you use to coat tool handles with. I am sure there are other ideas out there that other people use. I have four dry fire moon clips I use and all eight rounds have the rubber in them. I have used these for at least the last 30 years give or take a couple and no broken firing pins here.

I just figured it was common knowledge that you fix the dummy rounds to support the firing pin on revolvers. By the way TK Custom is top notch and I would recommend to anyone.

 

Dean Gomez

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, IVC said:

No, I'm doing it the pedestrian way - dummy rounds with no primer, so the abuse is clearly there.

 

I was just surprised that it's sort of a "common knowledge" that the semi-autos can be dry fired millions of times with no ill effects, while revolvers look like being much more delicate. Not sure what I should expect in terms of durability. I don't mind replacing firing pin if that means I can practice with realistic ammo - various snap caps usually won't even stay in the moon clips and I have 0.040 from TKC for a reason - to make the reloads faster... So, it's either realistic reloads and replacing firing pins, or sloppy reloads and saving the pin. 

Not really dry fire a 1911 as much as a Revolver, remember you can get 6 to 8 strikes with a Revo vs 1 strike, rack slide, repeat, and the FP retainer will crack and/or the spring will wear. For my 1911's  I went to the trouble of cutting a piece of Leather to replace the FP Stop, then removed the FP & Spring.  

If you had "the works" they may have replaced the FP Spring with a weaker/competition spring.  That can lead to quicker failure.  I'd also be curious what they used C&S, Apex, Factory?

Edited November 22, 2019 by pskys2

[pskys2]

5 minutes ago, revoman said:

Fill your primer cups on your dummy rounds with rubber dip. The stuff you use to coat tool handles with. I am sure there are other ideas out there that other people use. I have four dry fire moon clips I use and all eight rounds have the rubber in them. I have used these for at least the last 30 years give or take a couple and no broken firing pins here.

I just figured it was common knowledge that you fix the dummy rounds to support the firing pin on revolvers. By the way TK Custom is top notch and I would recommend to anyone.

 

Dean Gomez

Can also use Silcone Caulking.

[George16]

I put silicone into the primer holes of my dummy rounds. I let it harden up for a couple of days and it’ll turn into a rubber-like consistency and it’s great in absorbing the impact during my dry fire practice. The inside of my dummy cases are also filled with play dough to mimic the weight of my match rounds which are around 190 Gr (124 Gr JHP bullet, 4.0 Gr sport pistol, case and primer). Works well for my application.

[MWP]

2 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Not really dry fire a 1911 as much as a Revolver, remember you can get 6 to 8 strikes with a Revo vs 1 strike, rack slide, repeat, and the FP retainer will crack and/or the spring will wear.

If you had "the works" they may have replaced the FP Spring with a weaker/competition spring.  That can lead to quicker failure.  I'd also be curious what they used C&S, Apex, Factory?

It’s a TK pin, they’re new to the market. They are also aware of this and making every attempt to remedy the situation.  

 

Firing pins, firing pin springs, moon clips and brass should all be considered consumables. They wear out and need to be replaced- ideally before they wear out. 

 

Some people pull the trigger with a snap at the end of it, so cylinder stops and maybe even cylinders are consumables to them. 

[MikeyScuba]

Our Smith told me to take fired rounds and load those sans powder and no decapping rod.  I use Berrys 159gr .358 as they can take the abuse, plated bullets quickly lose coating.  Crimping the living *&&*$** out of them.  My first run of dummies last year had bullets falling out and were mixed headstamp.  Same oal as live rounds.

 

i did break a  firing pin 3months into  a completely  re-built new 929. it was an Apex pin from a custom run they did.  The head of the pin fell off and  down into the mechanism causing all sorts of weird problems.  I took the side plate off and saw what looked like a really small primer in the mechanism (my knowledge of revolver parts is rudimentary at best). I had a spare.  It broke during dryfire.
 

Any major match and I’m changing pins beforehand.  My wife is a pro at doing it. 

[pskys2]

19 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

Our Smith told me to take fired rounds and load those sans powder and no decapping rod.  I use Berrys 159gr .358 as they can take the abuse, plated bullets quickly lose coating.  Crimping the living *&&*$** out of them.  My first run of dummies last year had bullets falling out and were mixed headstamp.  Same oal as live rounds.

 

i did break a  firing pin 3months into  a completely  re-built new 929. it was an Apex pin from a custom run they did.  The head of the pin fell off and  down into the mechanism causing all sorts of weird problems.  I took the side plate off and saw what looked like a really small primer in the mechanism (my knowledge of revolver parts is rudimentary at best). I had a spare.  It broke during dryfire.
 

Any major match and I’m changing pins beforehand.  My wife is a pro at doing it. 

I never put a bullet on a case with a spent primer, unless a hole is drilled into the side of the case.  

Reason is, especially with firearms utilizing lightened primer striking power, you can have a dud/misfire get into the mix (how would one know by sight?) and then fire at some point later when practicing. I have had numerous instances of it taking multiple strikes, or a heavier strike, to fire.  I have only had one that did not ultimately fire, and that was recently with a factory magtech 9mm round.  IMHO it is just not worth the risk!

https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-symantec-ext_onb&hsimp=yhs-ext_onb&hspart=symantec&p=lets+be+safe+out+there+video#id=1&vid=de8e3c1a0747d21af39aec330326acb4&action=click

[MikeyScuba]

It’s easy when my practice rounds are copper plated while we only shoot coated.  Plus  practice rounds are moonclipped (they stay that way) -no live ammo is left out downstairs and reloading is done elsewhere.

[pskys2]

23 hours ago, MikeyScuba said:

It’s easy when my practice rounds are copper plated while we only shoot coated.  Plus  practice rounds are moonclipped (they stay that way) -no live ammo is left out downstairs and reloading is done elsewhere.

The other issue with spent (even seemingly spent) is the cup compresses with each strike.  At some point, seems to me less than a hundred dry fire snaps, you have lost the expected cushion and are back to bouncing the shoulder of the pin off of the frame.

I use spent cases, not resized, with the primers in them to practice i.e. snap on empty case w/spent primer & no bullet, eject moon clip w/spent cases, reload with dummy cases w/silicone filled primer pockets, snap multiples to work on transitions and splits.  I then cycle the empty spent cases out after a few weeks.  There is a definite difference in the feel of a fired case being ejected vs a resized case.

[swordfish]

Yeah the new TK pins are a problem. One of my squadmates ONLY fired live ammo through his, I think about 2k and it broke. No dryfire. I've broken a few, thankfully not at Nationals. I've broken Apex before as well. Happens. But the TK ones are currently being refined like MWP said. I'm still running TK in mine even after 2 breaks, and I'll run TK in mine when the new version comes out.

First pin lasted 2k. Second lasted 8k. Don't remember how long my Apex lasted but TK is the bomb and really supportive so I'll go with their parts first.

[RePete]

I fill the primer pocket with hot glue.  The old way was to cut an eraser and jamb it into the primer pocket - too much work.

[PatJones]

Some pins last longer than others. Even from the same manufacturer some end up with a better heat treat than others. I'm sure the amount of tension on your hammer spring effects it too.

I've been running the same Cylinder and Slide extended pin in my 627 for 7 years now with no problems. I understand the recent production factory pins work fine as well.

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[MikeyScuba]

I thought the C&S pins were brittle when dryfiring, at least that's what I heard.

[PatJones]

I thought the C&S pins were brittle when dryfiring, at least that's what I heard.

Hasn't been my experience. Anyone can make a run of brittle parts....

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[CMason5859]

I broke a TKC pin at Nationals.

It only had around 1500 live fire rounds on it, no dry fire.

The grain structure on the metal was very large.

I think they may have got a bad batch of metal

 

 

Edited December 1, 2019 by CMason5859

[swordfish]

Oh hey there he is