IDAHOAASHOOTER Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 So being fairly new to open and brand new to micro dots, I have a 9 major Venom gun and I really love it. I was letting some other guys run some rounds through it after a match last weekend. I had mentioned that my dot seems to go in a circular motion instead of just up and down it tracks right to where it started and at 7yrds the double taps are damn near touching. I've adjusted my grip tension a little and made sure I wasn't driving on the *thumb rest [generic]* to much. Other more experienced open shooters had similar experience. Has anyone had this come up? I was wondering since I have the infinity mount that sits back about an inch further that could possibly make the difference? I am sure it doesn't change where I sit on the leader board, the function of teh pistol is fine, shoots flat, way better than my ability. Just curious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiller Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Assuming you mean "dot seems to go in a circular motion" when you shoot it. I know mine moves up a tad but I can't say that I see any circular motion. I guess if you are shoving on the thumb rest way to hard you would see this in where your shots fall. I'm also assuming you dot is on tight, you are using the correct ammo and there is nothing wrong with the position of the comp. If you think you are pushing too hard on the gas peddle (thumb rest) take it off and test fire....watch what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 This isn't really an issue at all (assuming you can call hits). Just what you are seeing from the set up you are using and the grip you have. My current hybrids sets ups with vertical holes and my grip allows the dot to not leave the window at all when shooting. The dot does more left to right movement that my previous V6 set up from Don . But it doesnt leave the window like the V6 ones did. I can track the dot faster with this set up than my previous one. "See what you need to see" is the best advice anyone can give or receive on this kinda topic. It just takes a while to truly understand what that actually means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Key is having it return to the same point. Everyone likes it to go up and down as it simplifies things. The motion of the dot is related to the effectiveness of the comp. Some can actually dip down. One of the things that seems to help is the comp having side ports at some point. I had a Jet comp that did what you said, I drilled and using a tapered counter sink bit played with it until I got what I liked. But if it is working, I'd not try that. You might check some of your buddies guns and see if there's a difference and whether you like it. Especially before tampering with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDAHOAASHOOTER Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 I really cant see a reason to change anything. It returns to where it started, I'll try taking off the *thumb rest [generic]* maybe. I was just curious about it. Engineer mind strikes again lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Forgive me if I come off like an a_-hole... but what class are you? Without being M or GM, all of this is moot. You dont shoot fast enough for this to even matter a lot yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 This topic in general has always driven me a little nuts, from a engineering standpoint (short of a totally messed up build) any movement other than up down is caused by the shooter. I cant count how many times I've heard powder A makes the dot go this way and powder B makes it go that way or this setup makes figure eights and that one does circles etc. I think the thing is with open guns size and weight the movements are slowed down enough and the dot shows them to us so well that we are actually able to see them and as we cant see them with other guns we assume they are caused somehow by the gun, but every comp and hole setup I have seen is balanced so the forces side to side cancel each other so no side to side movement can be attributed to the gun or load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDAHOAASHOOTER Posted January 29, 2019 Author Share Posted January 29, 2019 Just B class, nowhere near "fast" enough. I just like to learn! theres so much about open guns I dont know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 I don't agree that powder makes no difference. Using WAC or Silhouette the dot on my Open gun tracks straight up and down, and returns to the original spot. With HS-6 the dot wiggles. It doesn't go as high, but it is not straight up and down. I just tried Major Pistol powder and it track straight up and down. The dot may not leave the glass. I don't know because it comes back so fast I can't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfitz427 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, zzt said: I don't agree that powder makes no difference. Using WAC or Silhouette the dot on my Open gun tracks straight up and down, and returns to the original spot. With HS-6 the dot wiggles. It doesn't go as high, but it is not straight up and down. I just tried Major Pistol powder and it track straight up and down. The dot may not leave the glass. I don't know because it comes back so fast I can't tell. I’ve only ever used hs-6, and I really like how it shoots. But my dot does wiggle a bit like you said. To bad I just bought 8 more pounds, I’d like to try another powder just for kicks and see if i it tracks better. Maybe I’ll buy some 1lb jugs and try out some new loads late this spring.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 27 minutes ago, zzt said: I don't agree that powder makes no difference. Using WAC or Silhouette the dot on my Open gun tracks straight up and down, and returns to the original spot. With HS-6 the dot wiggles. It doesn't go as high, but it is not straight up and down. I just tried Major Pistol powder and it track straight up and down. The dot may not leave the glass. I don't know because it comes back so fast I can't tell. Please explain how gas going through your comp/barrel pushes it sideways? oh and for extra credit how a similar quantity of similar pressure gas doesn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: Please explain how gas going through your comp/barrel pushes it sideways? oh and for extra credit how a similar quantity of similar pressure gas doesn't? The barrel twist rate imparts a torque force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 @IDAHOAASHOOTER Dont look for answers like this from the general D-A class crowd of Enos. Find local talent and train with them as much as you can. This place is mostly an echo chamber of false information from those who just regurgitate crap they have read on here. You need to dig hard to find the gems. This short thread is already proof of that. Get a bucket of ammo and go learn to suck less with the gat you got and the load you have right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Just now, HoMiE said: The barrel twist rate imparts a torque force. yes but this would remain the same for any given bullet wight/velocity so it is really not a variable between different powder or comp setups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, MikeBurgess said: yes but this would remain the same for any given bullet wight/velocity so it is really not a variable between different powder or comp setups I would say different powders have different volumes of gas to achieve same velocity. I’ve played the chasing soft shooting load and more gains are to be had with proper grip then using a certain powder especially with major 9 since you’re started with fewer powders you can use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, HoMiE said: I would say different powders have different volumes of gas to achieve same velocity. I’ve played the chasing soft shooting load and more gains are to be had with proper grip then using a certain powder especially with major 9 since you’re started with fewer powders you can use. Agreed but that has nothing to do with sideways motion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoMiE Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 minute ago, MikeBurgess said: Agreed but that has nothing to do with sideways motion I would agree that most of the motion is imparted by the shooters hands either anticipating recoil or improper grip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MikeBurgess said: Please explain how gas going through your comp/barrel pushes it sideways? oh and for extra credit how a similar quantity of similar pressure gas doesn't? I don't have an explanation for it. It just happens. Same gun, same grip same PF, just different powder. If it was my grip causing it, why not the same for the other powders? I used to think it was the extra gas produced, but that can't be it. MP makes way more gas and it tracks straight. BTW, I didn't say it pushed the gun sideways. I said the dot wiggles. Edited January 29, 2019 by zzt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, zzt said: I don't have an explanation for it. It just happens. Same gun, same grip same PF, just different powder. If it was my grip causing it, why not the same for the other powders? I used to think it was the extra gas produced, but that can't be it. MP makes way more gas and it tracks straight. BTW, I didn't say it pushed the gun sideways. I said the dot wiggles. Sorry I made the assumption that Wiggles was referring to movement other than up and down. It is very likely that the recoil impulse delivered to your hands is different and how your grip deals with that is what you are seeing. Edited January 29, 2019 by MikeBurgess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Maximis228 said: @IDAHOAASHOOTER Dont look for answers like this from the general D-A class crowd of Enos. Find local talent and train with them as much as you can. This place is mostly an echo chamber of false information from those who just regurgitate crap they have read on here. You need to dig hard to find the gems. This short thread is already proof of that. Get a bucket of ammo and go learn to suck less with the gat you got and the load you have right now. Yes, indeed. All guns are the same. All loads are the same. All powders are the same. Unless you're the M/GM elite, of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Yes.. the gun he just had built... and the ammo he just made for said gun... But sure. Keep chiming in with those gems of greatness in here about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcc7x7 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Maximis228 said: @IDAHOAASHOOTER Dont look for answers like this from the general D-A class crowd of Enos. Find local talent and train with them as much as you can. This place is mostly an echo chamber of false information from those who just regurgitate crap they have read on here. You need to dig hard to find the gems. This short thread is already proof of that. Get a bucket of ammo and go learn to suck less with the gat you got and the load you have right now. Yep!!! Shoot more , type less. I think Lathem says something like the callus on my finger is from my trigger not a keyboard!!! Something like that. Shoot until you figure out how to make your gun run. About then you'll also be a lot faster!!! good fortune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teros135 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) Shoot more, until you no longer shoot in the mid-80s at majors, then maybe come back and lecture the rest of us. Edited January 29, 2019 by teros135 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximis228 Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Oh this is good. Keep going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
echotango Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 hours ago, zzt said: I don't agree that powder makes no difference. Using WAC or Silhouette the dot on my Open gun tracks straight up and down, and returns to the original spot. With HS-6 the dot wiggles. Same here. Had the same results with HS6 and AA7. back to WAC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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