Seriously flat primers HS-6 9 major

[Jfitz427]

1 hour ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: I have tried most of the powders for 9mm major and keep coming back to HS-6. It is not the cleanest but does clean up easily. Not abrasive and burns very completely. If you like to test loads since it is part of the fun for me then try all the powders you can is my suggestion. I think in the end you will find what works for you the best. For me so far it's HS-6 and 115's. Thanks, Eric

Ya, HS-6 is a bit dirty, but I really don’t think it’s that dirty. I don’t notice much difference between cleaning it, vs cleaning my 40 that I shoot a lot of titegroup, which I don’t think Is known for being overly dirty. Maybe the open gun gets a bit dirtier. I usually shoot 124s, but I shot a load with 115s and hs-6 on Saturday and it was really nice. Better then my 124g load. The dot didn’t leave the glass. With 124s my dot goes up and barely out of the glas but returns back down in a milisecond. With the 115s it didn’t leave the glass. Gonna experiment more with them. 

 

I loaded some rounds with fed SRP and Win SPP. Gonna shoot them tomorrow and see what the primers look like. If I have enough time I’ll load up some with win SRP also. If these look fine, I’ll know it’s most likely just the extra soft fed match primers. Like I said, there’s no other pressure signs. 

 

And I’ll likely change the Main spring and firing pin soon so I can reliably ignite primers SRP. 

[Jfitz427]

i made it out to the range today with my 9 loads but with federal small rifle, and win small pistol primers. Again, I usually use only fed SPP. And I think my suspicions were right. Same load, 7.3g hs-6 behind a 124g blue bullet, and the primers looked fine. The fed SRP looked perfect, atleast imo for a major load. They were nice and rounded. And the win primers weren’t bad at all. Still rounded on the edges, a little flat but nothing compared to the fed spp. I had a few light strikes with the Winchester primers like always. Not a whole lot, but probably 4-5 out of 100. The fed srp were 100% reliable. Here’s some pics of those primers. 

 

So so based off this I would think the load is not dangerously over pressure. Probably pretty normal pressure for 9 major. It’s just the fed spp are so soft. I’m gonna load up some minor loads with fed primers and see what they look like. But going forward, I’m gonna buy only federal small rifle primers. After I finish the 10k small pistol I have left. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: What recoil spring weight are you using? It also look like you could seat those primers a little more also. Thanks, Eric

[Jfitz427]

2 hours ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: What recoil spring weight are you using? It also look like you could seat those primers a little more also. Thanks, Eric

Honestly I have no idea, but it feels heavy. It dribbles brass out and has a lot of hang ups if the ammo isn’t true major pf. I used to load some minor loads for my Glock that were still really hot, 7g hs-6 with a 115g bullet, and it the pieces that do eject just plop out of the ejection port into my hands. A lot hang up and get caught up in the port and jam. 

 

Ive been meaning to replace it with a tooless guide rod so I can easily change spring weights. Right now it has a recoil master, I think. I’ve been trying to determine what will work, can you point me in the right direction? For a 1 piece tooless uncaptured guide rod? 

 

As for the primers, I’ll take a pic of what they look like before firing. .

[Jfitz427]

They do look a bit high in that pic. But maybe they get pushed out a bit when firing. This is how they sit before firing. Flush, or even slightly deeper then the rim. Do they still look like they should be seated deeper? 

[Hi-Power Jack]

Look okay, but the one on the top right might be out a bit.   I don't worry about

primers being a little high - unless they won't allow the gun to chamber properly.

 

But, I take all "high" primers out for practice, and shoot "low" primers in matches.

 

BUT, really need larger, closer photos of the primers, with better lighting, to really tell.     

[jstagn]

Did you chrono both fed spp and fed srp? Was told rifle primers were faster?

Edited November 21, 2018 by jstagn

[drewbeck]

Flattened primers are “A” sign of pressure issues but they aren’t the only sign.

9mm major is going to be over saami pressures to begin with. Small pistol primers will generally always be flattened, and you have to look for other issues like case separations and consistent cracking to worry about it. The proven powders for 9 major are slow enough that it’s almost impossible to blow up a 2011 barrel with them. You’ll just end up with unburnt powder. Titegroup or other fast powders will be a hand grenade if overloaded.

Small rifle powders aren’t masking anything, they are just designed to handle the pressures that correlate with 9mm major.

For a 2011 open gun you have to run a extra long firing pin, some will say theirs works without it but the $15 bucks for one is the best insurance and guarantee that the gun will set off any primer.

You’re over thinking things in my opinion, it’s a good thing to do, just know when to stop


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[kneelingatlas]

On 11/20/2018 at 1:39 PM, Jfitz427 said:

going forward, I’m gonna buy only federal small rifle primers. After I finish the 10k small pistol I have left. 

 

Trade them to a Production shooter, they'll love you for it.

[Jfitz427]

4 hours ago, kneelingatlas said:

 

Trade them to a Production shooter, they'll love you for it.

Ya, maybe someone has 10k federal small rifle primers. The ones I loaded with with SRP looked great. Ill have to put an add up in the classifieds. 

[kneelingatlas]

26 minutes ago, Jfitz427 said:

Ya, maybe someone has 10k federal small rifle primers. The ones I loaded with with SRP looked great. Ill have to put an add up in the classifieds. 

 

Any other SPP will be fine too, I used CCI SPP in my 9 major loads until I ran out and switched to Winchester.

[Jim Watson]

Heck, I got scary primers with Federals and handbook 9mm loads.  I went back to WW and symptoms went away.

I use 19 lb mainsprings, I had a 17 that did well until it got a little squashed, then misfired. 

 

Federal small rifle are probably your answer.  Before they made specific magnum pistol primers, Federal recommended SR for .357 Magnum and that is the realm 9mm Major is working in. 

[zzt]

I use CCI small and large.  WW primers, especially small, have too many slightly oval primers that jam my primer tube filler. 

[chevrofreak]

The primers look a bit high, but they look a bit like a squib primer does.  When the primer detonates it backs out of the pocket, and when the powder burns it shoves the case back against the breach face which reseats the primer.    When that is done with extra violence it flattens the primer.  When done with extreme excess pressure the primer cup will expand into any void it can, such as the firing pin hole and the chamfer around the primer pocket. 

 

Your loads may be low enough pressure that it is not fully reseating the primers, and if that is the case then you don't have anything to worry about. 

[dhdeal]

On 11/22/2018 at 12:48 PM, Jim Watson said:

Heck, I got scary primers with Federals and handbook 9mm loads.  I went back to WW and symptoms went away.

I use 19 lb mainsprings, I had a 17 that did well until it got a little squashed, then misfired. 

 

Federal small rifle are probably your answer.  Before they made specific magnum pistol primers, Federal recommended SR for .357 Magnum and that is the realm 9mm Major is working in. 

Federal SRM GM are all I use for 357 Magnum as a precaution. Of course my 357 is a Freedom Arms 83 and I load it hot, but the SRM handle the pressure and never look like peanut butter smeared in the primer pocket (flat as a board).

 

I don't load the 9 Major, but I do use a lot of Federal SR primers for 9mm. My loads shoot accurately and I never have to worry about blanking a primer.

 

Over the years I've enjoyed reading how the Earth may cease to rotate if anyone were to use SR primers in a 9mm.

[Jfitz427]

Ya going forward I’m gonna buy small rifle. As of now that can only be federal small rifle, as they’re the only ones that were 100% reliable in my gun. I’m gonna get a heavier main spring and an extended firing pin in the future though so I can get reliable ignition with primers other then federal. 

 

But im gonna use up my small pistol too. Based off my testing, the load isn’t way over pressure, it’s just the fed spp are super soft. Seeing as how the primers looked great when using other brands. So it’s not the load, it’s the primers. Therefore there’s no harm in using the feds up. Atleast that’s my thinking. 

[racer-x]

2 hours ago, dhdeal said:

Federal SRM GM are all I use for 357 Magnum as a precaution. Of course my 357 is a Freedom Arms 83 and I load it hot, but the SRM handle the pressure and never look like peanut butter smeared in the primer pocket (flat as a board).

 

I don't load the 9 Major, but I do use a lot of Federal SR primers for 9mm. My loads shoot accurately and I never have to worry about blanking a primer.

 

Over the years I've enjoyed reading how the Earth may cease to rotate if anyone were to use SR primers in a 9mm.

 

 

The benefit of SPP with 9 major is that they deform and indicate when pressures are approaching dangerous levels in a fully supported chamber.

Small rifle primers are much harder and will not offer any warning of extreme pressures.

 

If you have your load dialed in and never change anything, SRP could work just fine for you.

 

I've had pretty big variations in powder between lots , a scale go bad and my charges were off when changing loads, 124gr JHP's mixed up as 115's, OAL adjusted a little short with powders that do really not like that... lots of possibilities where the SPP's can warn before something bad happens.

 

SRP will work, but you are giving up a valuable insight into what is happening when you pull the trigger.

[dhdeal]

On 11/23/2018 at 5:47 PM, racer-x said:

 

 

The benefit of SPP with 9 major is that they deform and indicate when pressures are approaching dangerous levels in a fully supported chamber.

Small rifle primers are much harder and will not offer any warning of extreme pressures.

 

If you have your load dialed in and never change anything, SRP could work just fine for you.

 

I've had pretty big variations in powder between lots , a scale go bad and my charges were off when changing loads, 124gr JHP's mixed up as 115's, OAL adjusted a little short with powders that do really not like that... lots of possibilities where the SPP's can warn before something bad happens.

 

SRP will work, but you are giving up a valuable insight into what is happening when you pull the trigger.

Great synopsis of a good reason to use SPP's in 9 Major. I doubt I'll ever go to 9 Major, but I deal with some high pressure cartridges (6BR, 6×47L, 6.5×47L, 6.5 Creedmoor to name a few) so I do watch primers pretty hard. I also have all my rifles firing pins either bushed or start out with a custom action with a small FP and FP hole to preclude primer flow or blanking. I don't think it's fun to get a face full of gas.

 

I appreciate the explanation. 

[Jfitz427]

On 11/23/2018 at 5:47 PM, racer-x said:

 

 

The benefit of SPP with 9 major is that they deform and indicate when pressures are approaching dangerous levels in a fully supported chamber.

Small rifle primers are much harder and will not offer any warning of extreme pressures.

 

If you have your load dialed in and never change anything, SRP could work just fine for you.

 

I've had pretty big variations in powder between lots , a scale go bad and my charges were off when changing loads, 124gr JHP's mixed up as 115's, OAL adjusted a little short with powders that do really not like that... lots of possibilities where the SPP's can warn before something bad happens.

 

SRP will work, but you are giving up a valuable insight into what is happening when you pull the trigger.

Well here’s the thing, if I ever saw primers like this in my prs gun, I’d know I’m way way over pressure, but it would be accompanied by other signs, sticky bolt, ejector swipes etc. with 9 major, it’s goijg to be over pressure. But just how much is the question. My load really is on the low end from what I’ve seen. I see many people over 8 grains with 124s. I’m running 7.3g. I don’t see any other signs. Never had a case separate on me ( knock on wood).

 

So idk, I was thinking that federal match spp are just really soft. As even with win spp they weren’t that flat. Therefore the load is not dangerously over pressure, the primers are just really soft. So I should be fine going forward with these primers. They’re going to keep getting flat like this, but just because they’re super soft, not because the load is to high. Am I right in thinking this? If I go any lower I won’t make major. And my gun really won’t cycle anything less. 

 

I think fed SRP are still fairly soft. They’ll probably still do a good job of showing pressure signs. Now cci, win and others, not so much. 

[dhdeal]

If you shoot PRS, you are familiar with the 6.5×47L case and it's need for a small FP and small FP hole in the bolt face. In every one of my rifles chambered for this case regardless of bore size, if I don't have the small FP/FP hole I get some crazy looking fired primers. 

 

Point I'm making is you know what is working for your pistol. You know the velocity/power factor of your load, it's accurate in your pistol, and you probably have a good educated guess that the SPM/SR primers work for you situation.

 

There are lots of threads all across the net that if you use a SPM or SR primer in 9mm the world could be moved off of it's axis. Well if that were true it would be moving (the earth) towards Juptier already just from my shooting the 9mm....

 

In the rifles I spoke of I use nothing but CCI450's. Don't really need the Magnum part of it, but do need the thicker cup so blanking won't occur (and the 450's are just so accurate across the board). Federal SR primers are too soft for the case I mentioned for my comfort. Pressure is pressure and if you can't lower it, do what you can to protect yourself from it. I'm not suggesting being foolhardy here but you already knew that.