Taking Pistols to Matches to/from Permit States

[Frankly]

Asking for a friend, cough, cough. I should have asked this years ago but I've never gotten to the point where I wanted to travel out of state to shoot a match. 

 

What are the rules? Especially for permit states like New York, do I have to go to Pennsylvania and get a non-resident permit and then do one of those classes that gives you reciprocity with a bunch of other states and so on? While avoiding NYC, NJ, and DC like Kryptonite? 

 

Or do I somehow get a "match letter" (print it out or does it have to be on stationary and stamped with something?) and bring it along with pistols in locked boxes and separated ammo storage... then I'm good to go once I arrive at the out of state range and only there? 

 

What about flying out to Colorado to shoot? Just keep it locked up and carry the match letter? But otherwise like taking a hunting gun out west? 

 

I simply haven't seen this addressed anywhere and even the search engines come up with a lot of bogus sounding stuff. 

 

Thanks

Edited August 1, 2018 by Frankly

[malobukov]

Depends on the state. In New York you can't touch a pistol without a New York permit. Not even with a "match letter".

 

http://handgunlaw.us/ is a good resource.

[Hi-Power Jack]

If you live in NY, you're in The Toughest state in the area ...

 

Comply with NY state laws, and you should be good to go.

 

When I lived in NY, I shot in Mass, CT, Pa, NJ, MD, VA and had no

problem whatsoever, by complying with NY State laws     

[jcc7x7]

5 hours ago, malobukov said:

Depends on the state. In New York you can't touch a pistol without a New York permit. Not even with a "match letter".

 

http://handgunlaw.us/ is a good resource.

Incorrect

We just had a match with appox 30 out of state shooters including Canada.

Get match letter etc, md of match should be able to help you with that.

[kps9999]

Not sure what a match letter will do for you if you travel through New York City, for example.  I'm sure in other jurisdictions you might have an issue. A match letter does not trump the local laws.  Be aware of the local laws.

[Nathanb]

We have a bunch of jersey and New York guys that shoot our matches so it can’t be too hard to accomplish. I do not know the specifics of what they need to do in order to traverse from those areas and back again. 

[Frankly]

5 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

If you live in NY, you're in The Toughest state in the area ...

 

Comply with NY state laws, and you should be good to go.

 

When I lived in NY, I shot in Mass, CT, Pa, NJ, MD, VA and had no

problem whatsoever, by complying with NY State laws     

 

No offense but that's the kind of vagueness that I find whenever I look for answers. 

 

Say I want to shoot a 3gun match in neighboring Pennsylvania or Ohio. I have a NY State Pistol Permit for unlimited CCW from my County, good throughout Upstate NY North of Westchester county. But I have no other non-resident out of state permits. 

 

My understanding is that if I lock the pistol sans ammo in a hard case and put it in the trunk/rear of the vehicle away so I can not easily access it AND I have proof that I am heading to and from a shooting match with a paid receipt that I should be legal doing so. But I do not see this explicitly stated in anything I've read, it is only an assumption gleaned from reading dozens of documents, many of which are a decade or more old and possibly superseded with new more restrictive laws since written. 

 

Obviously it would be extremely rare to be caught in violation unless I had a terrible car accident or was absolutely stupid ~ and even then a decent law enforcement agent would probably tend towards my favor when possible ~ but still if I am violating the law I would like to know that I am! 

 

The current system makes it nearly impossible to know whether I'm breaking the law or not. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Frankly

[Sarge]

3 minutes ago, Frankly said:

 

The current system makes it nearly impossible to know whether I'm breaking the law or not. 

On this we can all agree

[malobukov]

5 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

Incorrect

We just had a match with appox 30 out of state shooters including Canada.

Get match letter etc, md of match should be able to help you with that.

The way NY penal statutes are set up is that it is a crime to possess or use a handgun in New York, unless you are otherwise authorized by a specific statute that permits it. Do you know which statute says match letter is ok? I could not find anything like that, but these laws are complex and confusing so maybe I missed it.

[tanks]

11 hours ago, jcc7x7 said:

Incorrect

We just had a match with appox 30 out of state shooters including Canada.

Get match letter etc, md of match should be able to help you with that.

 

Did they fly out of NYC? The problem seems to be checking pistols in either at JFK or LaGuardia. There have been several cases of people getting arrested for possessing a pistol without a NYC permit while declaring their pistol at the check-in counter. 

 

 

[jcc7x7]

This is what I know but I'm not a lawyer:

HAs to be a sanctioned match, NRA, USPSA and IDPA seem to meet the criteria.

Match letter is helpful, mostly if you get stopped.

NY like most all states has a caveat regarding sanctioned matches in the law ( I do not have the #'s etc)

Gun CAN NOT be carried for PD, can only be used at the range where the match is.

YES as stated above this does not include NYC or surrounding area, as even permit holders from other parts of the state

cannot carry in NYC legally!

Yes gun has to be bagged/cased and should not be readily accessible, obviously this portion is very subjective, short of locked in a trunk. etc etc

As per the recent match and speaking to the MD earlier today.

 

 

Mike Harding from WNYPPL should be a better resource than I am.  As he has folks from Canada and PA at every match they have.

Look up WNYPPL on Practiscore for his info.

Hopefully he will have the law #'s etc to help y'all out.

[Hi-Power Jack]

10 hours ago, Frankly said:

 I do not see this explicitly stated, it is only an assumption gleaned from reading   

 

if I am violating the law I would like to know that I am! 

 

The current system makes it nearly impossible to know whether I'm breaking the law or not. 

 

My answer assumed (mistakenly, so my fault) that you were looking for a working answer -

what are thousands of shooters doing every weekend,  re: travelling to out of state matches.

 

Sounds like you might have to check with lawyers in each state you might travel, to get a

definitive, written answer to your question, citing the specific laws in each state which

would apply.

 

Sounds like overkill, to me, but if you feel you need this, that's probably the best way to

fully, authoritatively answer your specific question.    Good luck.

 

p.s.  BTW, if you find the answer, PLEASE post it here on BE Forums.    Thanks.

[NoSteel]

For a couple of years I traveled from Vermont to N.Y. For a small level 1 local match where several friends also attend.  I did follow states magazine rule, kept the pistol locked in my trunk in locked container,. Ammo in the passenger compartment (no loaded magazines) letter of invitation and only traveled to and from the event.  I went a step farther and got an email of approval from the Sheriffs dept. of the 2 counties I traveled thru in N.Y.  Based on Federal laws,. Good to go...  Also,. The bulk of the events shooters were /are law enforcement officials in N.Y. And they are also well aware of the out of staters at match and agree to the above noted practice..  At the start of the 3rd season I planned to attend I received this response from the Sheriffs dept. to my email intending to travel for the match.  

Sheriffs name and barracks left out for privacy: 

 

"Mr. Fisher, 

I appreciate you reaching out to us regarding this inquiry. You are correct, NY is a permit only state in order to possess a pistol as defined by the NYS Penal Law. I know of no lawful way for you to transport/possess a pistol into/within NYS without you possessing a NYS pistol permit. Though I am unaware of the specifics, I understand that if this is a NRA sanctioned event then they have processes in place to assist you in the transport of a pistol. 

I wish I could have been of more help. Feel free to reach out with any further requests. "

 

Long story short,. The interpretation of the State / Federal laws may be left up to a judge to decide if for some reason you are in the unfortunate position to be in front of an official who would prefer to not be in a position to make a decision on the spot.   To me,. A local match with friends not worth the hassle involved if I run across a guy having a bad day when I'm changing a flat with a locked gun case in the trunk.....

 

This type of confusion is one of many reasons why so many of us in Vermont are upset that our State has now become a "Restricted State" also......

 

P.S.  There seems to be varying positions on whether a local level 1 USPSA event is actually NRA sanctioned.....

[Frankly]

36 minutes ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

 

My answer assumed (mistakenly, so my fault) that you were looking for a working answer -

what are thousands of shooters doing every weekend,  re: travelling to out of state matches.

 

Sounds like you might have to check with lawyers in each state you might travel, to get a

definitive, written answer to your question, citing the specific laws in each state which

would apply.

 

Sounds like overkill, to me, but if you feel you need this, that's probably the best way to

fully, authoritatively answer your specific question.    Good luck.

 

p.s.  BTW, if you find the answer, PLEASE post it here on BE Forums.    Thanks.

 

Thank you. I understand the practical answer... "My friend" could safely and prudently drive to wherever the match might be while maintaining a low key demeanor. Then he could shoot the match with all of the other shooters, including various LEOs, have fun, and safely and prudently drive home. 

 

And this seems to be the state of things now, I haven't found anything reliable enough to stand on. Even the authorities give different answers depending on the individual and perhaps phases of the Moon.

 

The only really solid answer is to get out of NY (California, NJ, CT, Mass, etc.).

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by Frankly

[tyman1876]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

[kps9999]

50 minutes ago, NoSteel said:

......

 

"Mr. Fisher, 

I appreciate you reaching out to us regarding this inquiry. You are correct, NY is a permit only state in order to possess a pistol as defined by the NYS Penal Law. I know of no lawful way for you to transport/possess a pistol into/within NYS without you possessing a NYS pistol permit. Though I am unaware of the specifics, I understand that if this is a NRA sanctioned event then they have processes in place to assist you in the transport of a pistol. 

I wish I could have been of more help. Feel free to reach out with any further requests. "

 

Long story short,. The interpretation of the State / Federal laws may be left up to a judge to decide if for some reason you are in the unfortunate position to be in front of an official who would prefer to not be in a position to make a decision on the spot.   To me,. A local match with friends not worth the hassle involved if I run across a guy having a bad day when I'm changing a flat with a locked gun case in the trunk.....

 

This type of confusion is one of many reasons why so many of us in Vermont are upset that our State has now become a "Restricted State" also......

 

P.S.  There seems to be varying positions on whether a local level 1 USPSA event is actually NRA sanctioned.....

Huh?  Can anyone decipher what this sheriff is stating?  

 

IMO, this is the problem. No clear definition.

 

If you get popped you're gonna have to hire a lawyer to sort it all out. Or maybe not.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2018 by kps9999
spell check got me

[malobukov]

26 minutes ago, tyman1876 said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act

"Safe passage" provision of FOPA appears to only cover transporting through another state, not possession or use at the range in another state.

[ima45dv8]

23 hours ago, malobukov said:

Depends on the state. In New York you can't touch a pistol without a New York permit. Not even with a "match letter".

 

http://handgunlaw.us/ is a good resource.

              ^^^^^

My go-to resource for travelling with firearms (which until recently I used to do 22-25 weekends per year, including NY and NJ and CA).

I'll try to find the exact phrasing and an on-line reference (it's on my old work PC) but if it's an NRA-sanctioned match in NY, the state allows 48 hours 'safe travel' before and after the event, IF you stay out of the 5 boroughs. Must have a copy of the match announcement readily available.

[ima45dv8]

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/265.20

 

Section 13 seems to cover the NRA sanctioning requirement and the 48 hour grace period for travel (read as before and after the event).

Section 7-f bypasses the restriction of 7 rounds per magazine up to a maximum of 10 rounds, provided (again) that it is an NRA-sanctioned event.

 

[malobukov]

7 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/PEN/265.20

Section 13 seems to cover the NRA sanctioning requirement and the 48 hour grace period for travel (read as before and after the event).

Thank you. I stand corrected.

[L3324temp]

For NY making sure the matches is sanctioned is key. You also need to be aware of the time limits pre and post match. Also be aware to not use a NYC airport. They will arrest regardless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Frankly]

NY's 7-round law got thrown out so we can have 10-rounders in real life. At least that's what's sold here. 

 

But my legal advice is worth how much it cost you. Trying to read those SAFE Act amendments hurts.

[CTJer]

Well, I’ll be shooting the L.I. Championship in September.   I guess I better print out the registration from Practiscore.