Improve trigger speed?

[Cgoliver970]

Has anyone successfully improved their raw trigger speed? I found a thread from 2010 that concluded that you should try to relax but otherwise you got what you got. Using internet clicking/button mashing games I notice that my right hand is significantly quicker than my left. This gives me hope. I am just not sure what exercises may be effective. Anybody have any ideas?

 

PS: I have been tracking my fastest splits and my scores in the internet games and the results haven’t changed in over a month of just trying harder...

 

 

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[GunBugBit]

For me, the speed with which I can work my trigger finger isn't the limiting factor in how fast I can shoot controllably/accurately.  Maybe some day it will be, but for now I feel it's more about seeing faster.

[MemphisMechanic]

I definitely have. If you’re into pushing for .12 splits for some reason....

 

The biggest gain comes from abandoning any type of riding the reset, and coming well out past that point into the trigger’s pretravel.

 

Riding the reset = inevitable trigger freeze.

 

Edited June 7, 2018 by MemphisMechanic

[Glock26Toter]

These guys are onto something.  Working on raw trigger speed is not where you want to be concentrating your efforts.  You need to work on breaking the shot the instant you see an acceptable sight picture.  The speed will come naturally when you can bring all the other things into alignment.  

 

From a purely raw perspective, it does come from relaxation.  If I'm on a hoser, close array and really want to pump some rounds out I'll loosen my grip slightly and basically let the rocking of the gun bump fire the next shot.  It's more controlled than it sounds, but in a nutshell if done right it can result in some spicy splits.  I would qualify that as a an advanced technique and would advise you to stick with the first part of what I'm saying.   

 

Having said that, a very firm grip is key in recoil control and maintaining isolation between your gripping fingers and your trigger finger.  So I'll further recommend that you worry less about finger speed and instead increase grip strength. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Glock26Toter

[Doublehelix]

10 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

Riding the reset = inevitable trigger freeze.

 

 

I resemble that comment! I have been doing that way too often lately (at least 2-3 times per match), so I have been really working on my trigger control. There is nothing worse then pulling the trigger and nothing goes "bang".

[Cgoliver970]

It seems like “common knowledge” that worrying about splits is a dumb. However, I think that improving the speed I can manipulate the trigger will scale into every pull of the trigger. If .25 is no longer as fast as I can pull the trigger it can start to be a controlled pull for a 15 yard target instead of .35 like I do now. If I pick up .1 on every split that can be 1.6 seconds on a field course!


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[RaylanGivens]

15 hours ago, MemphisMechanic said:

I definitely have. If you’re into pushing for .12 splits for some reason....

 

The biggest gain comes from abandoning any type of riding the reset, and coming well out past that point into the trigger’s pretravel.

 

Riding the reset = inevitable trigger freeze.

 

 

Great advice, MM...

 

Took me a long time to figure this out.

[arkadi]

I started with .30 into the blank wall, couldn't go any faster. And I was good at Doom, Tournament, and Quake a while back. Then it became .25, then .20, now to .17. Gun matters - a little.

 

It is very unlikely for the mashing skill to directly transfer to action pistol trigger skill which is a highly coordinated action with a lot of variety. Definitely, to build a specialized skill with high precision requirements it must be exercised as is. Imitations won't transfer. A great piano player will be terrible shooter on day 1. YMMV

 

The drill of not riding the reset is to exaggerate return movement - allowing finger to go outside or hit trigger guard. It is just a drill, then you shoot as you like. That helped me a lot.

[Racinready300ex]

2 hours ago, Cgoliver970 said:

It seems like “common knowledge” that worrying about splits is a dumb. However, I think that improving the speed I can manipulate the trigger will scale into every pull of the trigger. If .25 is no longer as fast as I can pull the trigger it can start to be a controlled pull for a 15 yard target instead of .35 like I do now. If I pick up .1 on every split that can be 1.6 seconds on a field course!


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If your splits at 15 are .35 they're probably worth improving. But, are your splits .35 at say 5 yards? If they are faster at 5 yards then it's not trigger speed you need to work on at 15 yards. It's probably your grip.

 

With no target, how fast can you pull the trigger?

 

If you can save .1 on every split, there is a good chance you can save .2-.5 on every transition, and probably 1-2 seconds on every movement from position to position.

[IHAVEGAS]

3 hours ago, Cgoliver970 said:

I think that improving the speed I can manipulate the trigger will scale into every pull of the trigger. If .25 is no longer as fast as I can pull the trigger it can start to be a controlled pull for a 15 yard target instead of .35 like I do now. If I pick up .1 on every split that can be 1.6 seconds on a field course!

 

For point and shoot hoser stages I could see the math working out about as noted, else for me (about 0.20 second splits into a berm) I'm shooting as fast as the front sight lets me. 

[Cgoliver970]

 
With no target, how fast can you pull the trigger?

0.25 is comfortable 0.19 is the record


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[sixsixnine]

17 hours ago, Glock26Toter said:

These guys are onto something.  Working on raw trigger speed is not where you want to be concentrating your efforts.  You need to work on breaking the shot the instant you see an acceptable sight picture.  The speed will come naturally when you can bring all the other things into alignment.  

 

From a purely raw perspective, it does come from relaxation.  If I'm on a hoser, close array and really want to pump some rounds out I'll loosen my grip slightly and basically let the rocking of the gun bump fire the next shot.  It's more controlled than it sounds, but in a nutshell if done right it can result in some spicy splits.  I would qualify that as a an advanced technique and would advise you to stick with the first part of what I'm saying.   

 

Having said that, a very firm grip is key in recoil control and maintaining isolation between your gripping fingers and your trigger finger.  So I'll further recommend that you worry less about finger speed and instead increase grip strength. 

 

Spicy splits.  I like that.

 

Not sure if I've got the stones to try bumpfiring during a match, but I'm definitely going to give it a shot next practice session when nobody's looking.

[TimH]

With regards to performance improvements, you should ALWAYS be thinking "lowest hanging fruit" (ie. what can I save the most time on) 

If you're splitting shots at .19 at close open targets, I'd have a hard time investing considerable effort into reducing those numbers. At best, you're looking at say, a .05 sec improvement. However, if you have a transition deficit that's costing you an average of .1-.2 per transition, you stand to gain MUCH more working on transitions over splits.

 

Lets look at some quick numbers:

24 rd MEDIUM course

12 targets

 

Improving that split speed will gain you a total time of 1.15 seconds  (assuming .05sec savings over 23 splits *cant count the first shot) .05 x 23=1.15sec

Improving your transition speed by a mere .20 sec per transition results in a time savings of 2.2 sec (this includes ANY time NOT shooting as a .2 savings between targets for sake of simplicity. The savings would be MUCH higher if we also reduced entry/exit efficiencies on movement...SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS)

 

So you can see what's the easier "lower hanging fruit" to work on that will yield the best results. The amount of time spent working your triggering speed to reduce you splits is also going to be exponentially higher than what the time spent working on reducing your transitions would be.

 

Work smarter...not harder

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

16 hours ago, Cgoliver970 said:

0.25 is comfortable 0.19 is the record


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Can you duplicate that on 5-7 yard targets? Personally I don't feel I have good splits either, but I can do .18-.19 pretty well on 5-7 yard targets. 10-15 yards might be more in the .25 range. For reference, I'm close to GM and don't feel my splits are keeping from getting there.

 

My point, is look at your transitions and entry and exit like Tim said above. Focus on your grip, we can probably all stand to improve our grip and that will probably lead to better control allowing faster follow up shots and better hit's especially on longer shots.. But, if you can do .19's then raw trigger speed isn't really the issue.

[Cgoliver970]

17 hours ago, TimH said:

 

So you can see what's the easier "lower hanging fruit" to work on that will yield the best results. The amount of time spent working your triggering speed to reduce you splits is also going to be exponentially higher than what the time spent working on reducing your transitions would be.

 

Copy that, I will save split improvement until after I get out of B class (I am sure everyone could have guessed my class by this question). I finally set up some targets with more than the standard 3-ft transition in practice the other day and realized that fruit is low hanging indeed.

[Cgoliver970]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Can you duplicate that on 5-7 yard targets? Personally I don't feel I have good splits either, but I can do .18-.19 pretty well on 5-7 yard targets. 10-15 yards might be more in the .25 range. For reference, I'm close to GM and don't feel my splits are keeping from getting there.

 

My point, is look at your transitions and entry and exit like Tim said above. Focus on your grip, we can probably all stand to improve our grip and that will probably lead to better control allowing faster follow up shots and better hit's especially on longer shots.. But, if you can do .19's then raw trigger speed isn't really the issue.

Thanks, that is encouraging to hear its not holding you back at that level. I just see all the local GM's shooting low teens in matches and assume that is the standard for M/GM. 

 

I can see the sights (well, the fiber anyway) and get 0.2 splits on a 5 yard target, at 7 yards it starts to fall apart with 66% A's. Hard to believe that 2 yrds makes that much difference so I am guessing it is a mental thing causing me to jerk the gun around. Shots go high right (I am right handed).  

[Racinready300ex]

I know exactly what you mean, I hear guys ripping some crazy splits too. I'd try not to worry about that. I went to practice with a buddy a while back, and gave him some pointers. He's a C class open shooter. He could pull .15-.16 splits no problem. I can't do that yet. But, even on a simple Bill Drill that's just a draw and 5 splits he couldn't beat me. His .02-.03 gain on me only amounted to what .15 seconds. On a field course, I'll blow him away with my single stack gun, even though he's still got me on the splits.

 

Also sometimes things seem faster when you're watching someone. I know I've watched guys shoot a stage, and think "s#!t that was fast" only to shoot it faster when it's my turn. I think our perception of speed changes when we're shooting vs watching others. At least it seems to for me.

[tanks]

I discussed this with @MemphisMechanic at another thread in regards to hosing targets that are 3 yards or closer. His suggestion was to do a 3 yard Bill drills. First time I tried it I was stuck in my comfortable 7 yard shooting mode. Second time within about 200 rounds I was down to averaging .17 splits and I hit one .13 and several .15s. Prior to that fastest I ever shot was .19s at a berm and occasional 7 yard target. I know how it feels now and will keep on practicing it and translate it to longer distances with accuracy. Just having that one .13 showed me that it is doable.

[uewpew]

On 6/6/2018 at 2:48 PM, Cgoliver970 said:

 

Has anyone successfully improved their raw trigger speed? I found a thread from 2010 that concluded that you should try to relax but otherwise you got what you got. Using internet clicking/button mashing games I notice that my right hand is significantly quicker than my left. This gives me hope. I am just not sure what exercises may be effective. Anybody have any ideas?

 

PS: I have been tracking my fastest splits and my scores in the internet games and the results haven’t changed in over a month of just trying harder...

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

 

You can increase your trigger speed.  Just practice pulling the trigger as fast as you can.  As most of the previous posts said...splits are probably not the biggest time suck.

 

IMO the mouse clicking is not representative of a trigger pull...do the internet games for fun but not for practice.

[B585]

On 6/7/2018 at 1:07 PM, Cgoliver970 said:

It seems like “common knowledge” that worrying about splits is a dumb. However, I think that improving the speed I can manipulate the trigger will scale into every pull of the trigger. If .25 is no longer as fast as I can pull the trigger it can start to be a controlled pull for a 15 yard target instead of .35 like I do now. If I pick up .1 on every split that can be 1.6 seconds on a field course!


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This makes sense to me.  It is similar to increasing your grip strength.  The stronger your grip, the less percentage of your strength you have to use in order to stabilize the gun. I have been wondering about the same thing for Traeger speed, but so far I have not been successful at increasing it.

[Cgoliver970]

8 hours ago, B585 said:

This makes sense to me.  It is similar to increasing your grip strength.  The stronger your grip, the less percentage of your strength you have to use in order to stabilize the gun. I have been wondering about the same thing for Traeger speed, but so far I have not been successful at increasing it.

 

I am taking everyone's advice to focus on transitions in my livefire/dryfire but I still plan to pursue this on the side. I want to recruit/develop more "fast twitch" muscles fibers in my fingers. It appears that the way to do that is training heavy resistance, explosive movement exercises. My plan is to start with a real light grip trainer and just trying to work it explosively with my trigger finger. Also explosive, trigger finger only exerciser with flexor training rubber bands. 

[TimH]

36 minutes ago, Cgoliver970 said:

 

I am taking everyone's advice to focus on transitions in my livefire/dryfire but I still plan to pursue this on the side. I want to recruit/develop more "fast twitch" muscles fibers in my fingers. It appears that the way to do that is training heavy resistance, explosive movement exercises. My plan is to start with a real light grip trainer and just trying to work it explosively with my trigger finger. Also explosive, trigger finger only exerciser with flexor training rubber bands. 

Please forgive my questioning or ignorance, but why?

 

If you're shooting at speeds based on what the sights tell you for every single shot, you're shooting fast enough. As you see more and earlier, your shot speed will improve also. 

 

Just seems like you're going to be spending time on a technique thats more "gimmicky" than productive. I encourage you to really weigh the benefits of this vs. working on things that will progress you sooner and are more beneficial.

 

...but I'm just spitballin' here. What do I know?      *shrugs*

 

 

 

 

[ClangClang]

11 minutes ago, TimH said:

Please forgive my questioning or ignorance, but why?

 

If you're shooting at speeds based on what the sights tell you for every single shot, you're shooting fast enough. As you see more and earlier, your shot speed will improve also. 

 

Just seems like you're going to be spending time on a technique thats more "gimmicky" than productive. I encourage you to really weigh the benefits of this vs. working on things that will progress you sooner and are more beneficial.

 

...but I'm just spitballin' here. What do I know?      *shrugs*

 

@Cgoliver970 you should probably listen to this guy.

[SCTaylor]

@TimH good to see you back around.

 

@Cgoliver970 listen to Tim, he is a world class GM. Focus on EVERYTHING ELSE right now. You've seen the math, 1-1.5 seconds per stage in splits (if that) are not dragging you out of first place. Go watch some of the Nationals Top 16 YT videos, it aint their split speed winning matches.

[tanks]

1 hour ago, Cgoliver970 said:

 

... I want to recruit/develop more "fast twitch" muscles fibers in my fingers. It appears that the way to do that is training heavy resistance, explosive movement exercises. My plan is to start with a real light grip trainer and just trying to work it explosively with my trigger finger. Also explosive, trigger finger only exerciser with flexor training rubber bands. 

 

Based on my experience mentioned above the difference in the faster splits at short distances was relaxing and going for it. Anytime I tensed up I was back to .20 splits at 3 yards. I think the "fast twitch" muscles are already there just part of daily living (and typing on the keyboard etc.  ). 

 

For faster splits at longer distances I think the key is faster vision and grip strength and technique to bring the gun down to see the sights sooner not faster fingers.