currahee1911 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Adjusted it using timing pencil. Went out again. Sent to Dillon, returned machine looked like new. Out of time again. Is this a constant problem? What causes this? I'll retime again; but I am afraid will happen again (flipped primers are the problem). Any help? Thanks, C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I've had the shell plate off of my 650 many times and have never has an issue with timing. I just plop in back on there and tighten the screw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Other stuff that can cause the flipped primers besides just "timing". Wear on the primer plate can do it. Primer ram can cause it. If the new primer is not fully below the shellplate when the shellplate indexes it can/will flip the primer. Confirm that primer insertion ram is fully retracting into its housing. IF this doesn't fix it, remove the primer assembly and look at the bottom of the primer plate and confirm that it is still smooth between primer holes. I need to borrow a shellplate alignment tool myself as mine (650) seems to over index about 3-5 degrees and if my primer pockets are still crimped, it will not seat the next primer without crushing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L3324temp Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 This certainly isn’t a common problem. I would give Dillon another call tomorrow. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I have 2 650's on the same bench and one constantly has flipped primers. I called Dillon about it and they sent me a new primer seater and it did nothing. I have been fighting this for a while. I have tried many many things to correct this problem, but nothing works. I'm about ready to give up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) A couple of ideas you may have tried... 1.Change to a different lot of primers. 2.Tighten the shell plate, if it's loose it will flip primers. ETA; this is the most common press related problem. Make sure the shell plate will not rock back and forth when pressing down on opposite sides. 3.Check the punch and it's mounting. If it sticks up just a hair it can flip em. ETA; it can also not be screwed in far enough which will cause problems. 4.Make sure the path on the platform the primers make while going around in the wheel is squeeky clean. ETA; the platform under the wheel. 5.Make sure you are using the small wheel for small primers... I usually don't have much problem with small primers, but things have to be just right for large... Good luck jj Edited February 21, 2018 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I cleaned the primer tubes, cleaned the primer sleeve, took the primer assembly apart and cleaned it all. I lapped the primer disk on both sides to get rid on any burrs or high spots. I tired a weighted primer rod, I tried putting a weight behind the primers when putting them in the sleeve. I tried tightening and loosening shell plate. The same primers work perfect in my other press. The primer punch has been replaced. They are flipping before the primer punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 By the way, what is a timing pencil? How do you set the timing on a 650? How does it so easily go out of time? I have never "set the timing" on mine, bar adjusting the case insertion system, which I don't think would have any affect on primer flipping... jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammer Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 There are rods that come with the timing kit that Dillon will send you to align everything before you tighten stuff up. I have had to do it one time over many years. It seemed to take care of the issue I was having with primers at the time. They send an instruction sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 (edited) I've had a 650 for 15years, never heard of a timing kit...guess I will check on that. ETA; I know about the alignment tool, I don't have one, but have learned how to align it without the tool. Is that what you mean? Edited February 21, 2018 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgh Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Rigger listed the things to check for flipped primers. I might also add to be sure you have the small primer tube installed and not the large. That will definitely cause flipped primers. Don't ask how I know that ... I've had a 650 for about 20 yrs and never had a timing problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 No doubt misalignment could be a problem as well as some of the other things mentioned here. "Timing" I don't understand. The entire press is controlled mechanically by springs, ramps and such. Unless you have modified (or have wear) at some mechanical location, I fail to see how you can possibly change the timing even if you want to change it.What in hell is a timing pencil anyway. BTW I have run literally 250000 rounds through my 650. The last 100K with a MK 7 that runs the press at a higher speed the I can get pulling the handle. I have had plenty of things break, but I have never had what I consider a timing problem. Occasionally (very occasionally) I will have a flipped primer due to loading it upside down on the RF100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 and I also find it odd that the OP has not posted here since the beginning... maybe he could tell us what a "timing pencil" is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, RiggerJJ said: and I also find it odd that the OP has not posted here since the beginning... maybe he could tell us what a "timing pencil" is... I would suspect that OP is referring to the Dillon alignment tool. Shameless plug - Anyone have an alignment tool they want to share for a brief time? Or JJ, wanna share your alignment method that doesn't require the tool? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I have an extra one I will give you Will next time I see you and get those SS mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 There ya go... I just look carefully at the primer punch and align the shell plate with it. It takes a bit of trial and error cause you have to remove the shell plate to get to the bolts under it. jj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_53 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) There are two different alignment procedures for a 650. The "common" one is the alignment of the platform to the tool head, needed if you have removed the platform for a major cleaning or to replace a worn/broken indexer ring. Dillon will provide an alignment tool on request (basically a plug that fits in a powder die) to get the primer seating punch hole in the platform aligned with station 2 of the tool head. The second one involves adjustment of the index cam to get the shell plate to align correctly with the priming punch. Again, Dillon will provide the alignment tool needed for this on request. In my experience, there is also a bit of fine tuning in alignment of the primer system itself - there is a bit of play that allows you to rotate the entire primer system (ever so slightly) to insure that the hole in the primer feed disk is centered over the primer seating punch. Dillon's instructions for the alignment procedures have been uploaded to this site in the past - unfortunately, the pdf file copy I have is too large for me to upload it here.... Edited February 23, 2018 by Steve_53 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 The instructions for the alignment tool are on the Dillon site at https://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/Dillon_Alignment_Tool_Instructions.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_53 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 j 20 minutes ago, jhgtyre said: The instructions for the alignment tool are on the Dillon site at https://www.dillonprecision.com/docs/Dillon_Alignment_Tool.pdf The indexer alignment instructions are in post #12 of this thread... http://forums.brianenos.com/topic/194251-650-shell-plate-timing-fixed-indexer-block/?do=findComment&comment=2152022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Youngeyes Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I started getting some flipped primers. The answer was this.. "station 2 locator tab is not adjusted to be within .002-.004" of touching the case. " Different calibers need a different adjustment. the case is pushed slightly out of position and the primer tips.I was loading a bunch of 9mm and switched to 45ACP. I readjusted it properly and had zero problems. This problem is more likely than a timing problem, especially if you have already timed the press. It's not the shell plate that is out of alignment, it's the case. YMMV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwikel Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I'm lost here, how do you time a xl650? Is everyone referring to the alignment process as timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_53 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 "Timing" is adjusting the alignment of the shell plate indexing to insure that the shell plate (at the #2 position) is correctly lined up with the priming punch when the handle is all the way forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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