RO Interference ?

[p7fl]

I’ve heard the term “RO interference” forever and used it last weekend. Not sure it exists or was the right call.

 

Level 1 match, I was sharing the clock with a bunch of good RO’s and CRO’s.

Stage was set as a triangle with shooting boxes/positions in the corners. We started back, Limited Shooter fires from box 1, then 2 mags fall from his belt as he goes to box 2, this happens about 4 steps out of box 1 and 15 feet from box 2. Running fast, he continues to box 2, I stay back in case he comes back for his mags….finally I start heading forward to box 3 to make sure to pick up his final time and at the same time he heads back to pick up his 2 mags to finish the COF.

I am off balance heading forward and he passes me heading back. Slide was locked back and he was careful not to sweep me.  But, now I was the  in front of the shooter.  I called “stop”.

I was not happy about this, but figured it was my fault as I should have anticipated longer that he might come back and awarded a re-shoot.

Was this right under 8.6.4?

 

As a shooter I have always stopped if the RO got into my 180. It always seemed that safety outweighed my “right” to have a good stage.

 

Or, should it have been a DQ under 10.3. ( We all hate DQ’ing)

[ktm300]

Other than the fact that you let him get behind you you stopped him that was OK.

 

As to using 10.3 that just would't work.  You need a specific rule.

 

 

[IHAVEGAS]

Have discussed similar scenarios a little bit with my r.o. instructor. 

 

Shooter did not sweep you, shooter has the right to safely go back for his mags. Re-shoot if you choose to stop him or impede his progress. I think stop and reshoot was the right way to do things if you felt that a safety issue could develop, I would have preferred not to stop him if he could safely continue. 

[perttime]

It doesn't sound like stopping the shooter was absolutely necessary. Your call, though.

 

I don't currently compete much, but have seen stages where RO being inside the firing sector at some point is no problem, because the only available targets at that point are well towards the other side of the sector. Like, there was the IPSC stage where the stipulated sector was well over 180 degrees and the shooter had to get past the RO to get to the other end of the narrow corridor. Targets were placed so that it wasn't hard for the RO to stay out of the way.

[motosapiens]

is there a rule against the RO being in front of the shooter? don't think so. reshoot is correct call.

[toothandnail]

Reshoot is correct, had a similar incident a couple weeks ago at a match I attended.

Shooter forgot a target, ran back to engage, passed 2 RO's and possibly a 3rd& 4th who was helping score/reset.

Shooter had to wait for them to get behind him to continue, didn't get a reshoot.

[9x45]

1 hour ago, perttime said:

It doesn't sound like stopping the shooter was absolutely necessary. Your call, though.

 

I don't currently compete much, but have seen stages where RO being inside the firing sector at some point is no problem, because the only available targets at that point are well towards the other side of the sector. Like, there was the IPSC stage where the stipulated sector was well over 180 degrees and the shooter had to get past the RO to get to the other end of the narrow corridor. Targets were placed so that it wasn't hard for the RO to stay out of the way.

 

 

What's a sector?

[perttime]

7 minutes ago, 9x45 said:

 

 

What's a sector?

 

People usually refer to it as "180" here. The direction where you can point or fire your gun. At least IPSC also allows more or less than 180, of course provided it can be applied safely.

 

 

[Hammer002]

Good call.  Reshoot, learn from it, and carry on.  Safety is always priority no matter what any specific rule says.  Anyone, for any reason, somehow winding up down range should always be a stop call.  Next time just don't second guess yourself, stay back.  If someone does something that leaves me wondering what they may do, or something odd like that happens, I give a wide birth and stay back.  Take credit in that you made the call.  If seen this happen with no call.  Cringeworthy.

 

 

[Nik Habicht]

My take is really simple -- if someone started walking over the berm, or we "discovered" someone else was downrange while running a competitor, we'd all call stop.  ROs aren't any different -- if they wind up downrange, even if they're not being muzzled, it's a safety issue first, and "Stop" is the correct command.  After that, there's really little recourse, other than to reshoot the competitor, unless the shooter broke a safety rule in the process. 

[IHAVEGAS]

A target close to the 180 can present a whole lot smaller safe muzzle zone than a Down range r.o..  We shoot them all the time. 

 

Agree with the stop if there is a reason to have a safety concern, depends on specific locations of personnel and etc.. Personally I am not going to stop a shooter just because he is faster than me and is having a bad stage.

[Poppa Bear]

On 8/26/2017 at 9:41 PM, Hammer002 said:

Good call.  Reshoot, learn from it, and carry on.  Safety is always priority no matter what any specific rule says.  Anyone, for any reason, somehow winding up down range should always be a stop call.  Next time just don't second guess yourself, stay back.  If someone does something that leaves me wondering what they may do, or something odd like that happens, I give a wide birth and stay back.  Take credit in that you made the call.  If seen this happen with no call.  Cringeworthy.

 

 

Several issues with this video.  Like the DQ starting at around 35 seconds.  RO was caught out of position.  Shooter annihilated the 180 at 37 seconds.

[motosapiens]

haha, there must be an internet law similar to godwin's law about posting shooting videos. Pretty much guaranteed an armchair qb somewhere will call a dq on *any* shooting video posted on the net.

[teros135]

Yeah, especially when it's blazingly obvious that the shooter turns around with the gun still pointing forward of himself and runs uprange...

[motosapiens]

28 minutes ago, teros135 said:

Yeah, especially when it's blazingly obvious that the shooter turns around with the gun still pointing forward of himself and runs uprange...

might be fine depending on the stage design and the bay. video is notoriously inaccurate and portraying angles.

[MikeBurgess]

23 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

might be fine depending on the stage design and the bay. video is notoriously inaccurate and portraying angles.

either way there is some funky gun handling going on in that video 

[teros135]

33 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

might be fine depending on the stage design and the bay. video is notoriously inaccurate and portraying angles.

 

I'd like to hear from somebody who was there.  It sure doesn't look that way, does it?

[Hammer002]

14 hours ago, motosapiens said:

might be fine depending on the stage design and the bay. video is notoriously inaccurate and portraying angles.

 

15 hours ago, motosapiens said:

haha, there must be an internet law similar to godwin's law about posting shooting videos. Pretty much guaranteed an armchair qb somewhere will call a dq on *any* shooting video posted on the net.

 

Points his gun in four completely different directions, right,  then left, then back from which he came, then forward for the plates. 

 

Edited August 30, 2017 by Hammer002

[p7fl]

OP here. Some of our guys have explosive speed.

If you are focused on where the gun is and pointing when they break up range, there is no way to get back behind the gun.

 

[ktm300]

6 minutes ago, p7fl said:

OP here. Some of our guys have explosive speed.

If you are focused on where the gun is and pointing when they break up range, there is no way to get back behind the gun.

 

If you don't plan ahead you will get caught.  When you start to run someone on a stage you need to have a plan on how to stay out of the way.  On that stage I am not going to get close to the shooter at all.  I will have 7 to 10 yards to execute my escape plan.  Even Speedy isn't that fast.  On this one, there were a ton of clues that he was going to go back up range.  You need to watch the gun but tunnel vision is an issue.

[IHAVEGAS]

48 minutes ago, ktm300 said:

 On that stage I am not going to get close to the shooter at all.  I will have 7 to 10 yards to execute my escape plan.  Even Speedy isn't that fast.

 

Does that work with one of the really quiet pcc guns? We've set our timers to max sensitivity but I think 10 yards would be tough. 

[ktm300]

19 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Does that work with one of the really quiet pcc guns? We've set our timers to max sensitivity but I think 10 yards would be tough. 

Yes, PCC is an issue on picking up the shots but only the last ones.  Most of the time you can stay pretty close if you pay attention.

[Hammer002]

13 hours ago, ktm300 said:

If you don't plan ahead you will get caught.  When you start to run someone on a stage you need to have a plan on how to stay out of the way.  On that stage I am not going to get close to the shooter at all.  I will have 7 to 10 yards to execute my escape plan.  Even Speedy isn't that fast.  On this one, there were a ton of clues that he was going to go back up range.  You need to watch the gun but tunnel vision is an issue.

 

This^^^  absolutely agree.

 

12 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Does that work with one of the really quiet pcc guns? We've set our timers to max sensitivity but I think 10 yards would be tough. 

 

One of the practices I adopted shooting PCC is I will tell the RO where I am going to finish, and if necessary, which way I will be facing for last shot.  Kinda like telling them I am going to take off right or left at the beep, or maybe turning into them on a stage starting downrange.  That way he can at least be there for the last shot break, which is all that is really needed.  As an RO, I have began to ask a PCC shooter where he plans to finish, etc. if it does not seem obvious. I have had this interaction a few times now and every one of them were highly appreciative, as both of us were confident in what the other was doing and didn't have to worry about it.

[perttime]

On 8/30/2017 at 9:44 AM, Hammer002 said:

 

 

Points his gun in four completely different directions, right,  then left, then back from which he came, then forward for the plates. 

 

 

At a recent IPSC Match I got nasty Failure to Engage points when I forgot about the targets that were in the fourth direction.

 

----

At another Stage at that Match, the RO asked me which way I plan to go. There were multiple possibilities but restricted space for moving among the walls, so he wanted to make sure he doesn't get in my way.

[IHAVEGAS]

6 hours ago, Hammer002 said:

 

One of the practices I adopted shooting PCC is I will tell the RO where I am going to finish, and if necessary, which way I will be facing for last shot. 

 

Good idea.