.40 Brass Blowups

[kevin c]

I realize that I, along w/ a few other posters here in Reloading, have expressed concerns about bulged .40 brass getting overworked and brittle and perhaps being more likely to fail. I also have read here, and have quoted "the party line" on the risk of .40 overpressure loads and their consequences. The reasoning seems sound to me, but just how many of us have actually had a .40 KB, or witnessed or heard from somebody with FIRSTHAND experience with one?

I'm not talking about excessively hot loads (I did that one - wrecked a gun, too), nor case splits, which we all see and expect in aging brass. I'm talking about blowups in "reasonable" match loads, and using brass that we pick up or buy and are willing to use for them.

I know that such a poll won't be scientific - for instance, if none of us who respond have had a problem, it may be that we're more cautious than most, being aware of other people's problems. But at least we'll have some inkling of whether it actually has happened in our direct experience, rather than just repeating an unconfirmed impression or the equivalent of a shooting urban legend.

I'm using the phrase "old/questionable brass" to include the Glocked or bulged brass that we've talked about in other threads. I'd like to exclude KB's during load development, since I think that's a different ball o' wax.

Comments welcome, and TIA.

Kevin C.

[mikeg]

I am fairly new in the standard division. I have a Sti long dust cover 40 pistol and I haven't experienced any blown cases. I started here in the philippines in the production division using a 9mm pistol and I have experienced more blown cases in 9mm. The reason I transfered to 40 caliber is that my friend who is in modified using hot loads said that he never experienced blown cases in the long time he's been using his 40 modified pistol. so now i am in standard division.

[sargenv]

The only case head I experienced was with PMC brass, but it wasn't entirely the brass's fault. Loading a max charge of PB, to min OAL with a 200 gr bullet was the culprit. However, I fired about 25 rounds before firing the PMC brass, which had the case head rip completely off of the case. I felt the grip panels flex, and had an instant unload down the mag well, but everything was ok save the magazine and the said case that was ripped in two. Generally I pick up brass at the range and fire just about anything without a problem. This includes 38 super brass. Both my open and limited guns keep eating up all the brass I can give it regardless of origin.

I've since replaced a faster powder (Titegroup) with a slower powder (Power Pistol) in 40 and so far I think I like the power pistol better since it gives me some breathing room for pressure. In other words, I can load them hotter if I want. I never much cared to be right at the limit for powder weight. If I have to change bullets for some reason, I can now do so safely.

Vince

[ryan45kim]

I seam to be the king of case head separations in the group that I shoot with.

I only have one kind of 40 brass, that is the brass that has not split yet (yes I shoot them till they split).

I also do not play around with power factors (I’ve had the same ammo crono 180pf at one match and do 165pf a month later, granted it was Chinese powder) so I load to a 175-180pf.

I first started separating cases loading a surplus Chinese powder, it worked fine for 155gr LRN but when I switched over to a 150gr frangible (they are made of powdered copper and tin, because there is no lead in them they are very long for there weight) it cut my case capacity and spiked my pressure. I switched to WSF and fixed that problem.

When I lost my source for the frangible heads I started using a plated 180gr frontier head. I read the forum and decided to try WST as everyone seams to push fast powders and heavy bullets in limited. When I just started to make power factor I got my first case separation. At 5.4gr of WST I separated both Win and PMC cases. I was still only getting around 970fps.

I fixed the problem the same way I did before by switching to a slower powder (again WSF). I can run a 180pf with WSF (1000fps with a plated 180gr frontier head) and stay within Win reloading data (I’m loading 6.2gr of WSF at 1.185 OAL).

I have not had any problems with my brass since I stopped running the fast powders.

Ps the WSF works great with 45ACP.

[MoNsTeR]

Worst I've had is a pierced primer, never any case problems.

[davidwiz]

When I first started out, I had bought some "once fired" .40 brass. At least 5 of them let go (total case failure). The bad thing was that this happened at a big match once, and I couldn't get the stuck case out of the chamber during the stage, so I DNF'ed. Since then, instead of trying to save a few bucks, I only buy new cases and only reload *my* fired cases.

[Putty]

For major and the bullet weight I shoot, I was in the upper grains for Titegroup. When chrono at Area 1 I was way over (1081) whereas my minimum for major was 1012. I asked Benny hill about this and he said I have a fast barrel and that I could load down to 4.7 from 5.0 to come in around 1020. I have some breathing room now as I am paranoid having blown up one gun already. But I like the way titegroup burns clean, at least for me.

[GuildSF4]

I only had this happen one time, a once fired case head seperation. The brass was GFL, powder was titegroup, ripped the whole head off, killed the extractor.

I have been told by other shooters that they had problems with the GFL brass also.

[HI5-O]

Had and seen cases separate when we switched to the Glock 22 in 1995. We were using Federal .40 180 jhp for training/duty when most of the separations were occurring. It was the brass cases marked FC instead of FEDERAL. The nickel plated cases used with the 180 Hydra-Shok were fine (this is what Federal air shipped to us as a replacement). Since then, I noticed all of the good brass comes with the FEDERAL headstamp (not FC) and no separations occurring since the switch. I use the once fired cases from our Glocks with no problems in my Dawson Practical, just have to use the EGW/Lee undersize-die on the initial sizing.

[mcoliver]

Comparing my 40cal 180gr and 200gr lead loads, I noticed more case head seps from the 200's. But these are with brass that were already questionable. I'm back to 180's but this time with plated heads. I have a few shells I suspect will cause some issues if I use it. Still deciding if I should shoot it or not.

[ryan45kim]

Opps, I meant to say the WST works great in 45ACP

[kimel]

Never had a problem. I tend to buy once fired Winchester brass and it never gets loaded more than a few (say half dozen at the most) times. Then it goes into the scrap brass box (what little of it actually seems to make it home...I shoot with a bunch of brass hogs).

Most non-Winchester brass goes straight to the scrap brass box.

Eventually I'll have enough scrap brass to have a buddy with a foundry cast me up a cannon or a door knocker or something.

.40 brass is too dang cheap to even consider running it until it blows apart. Buy once fired, run it through an EGW sizing die, don't try and reload it forever, and get on with life.

[kevin c]

I'm suprised - so far nearly two out of five poll responders record a first or second hand experience w/ a .40 blowup. That's a lot higher than I'd thought would be the case. 'Course, any good statistician would nail me on the fact that I have no idea whether this is truly a "representative sample" of all .40 reloaders/shooters, and that the rate in other calibers could be even higher, but I'm still impressed at the frequency.

Had and seen cases separate when we switched to the Glock 22 in 1995. We were using Federal .40 180 jhp for training/duty when most of the separations were occurring. It was the brass cases marked FC instead of FEDERAL. The nickel plated cases used with the 180 Hydra-Shok were fine (this is what Federal air shipped to us as a replacement). Since then, I noticed all of the good brass comes with the FEDERAL headstamp (not FC) and no separations occurring since the switch. I use the once fired cases from our Glocks with no problems in my Dawson Practical, just have to use the EGW/Lee undersize-die on the initial sizing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, so your department had multiple case failures with FACTORY ammo?

Edited September 19, 2005 by kevin c

[kevin c]

Eventually I'll have enough scrap brass to have a buddy with a foundry cast me up a cannon or a door knocker or something.

.40 brass is too dang cheap to even consider running it until it blows apart.  Buy once fired, run it through an EGW sizing die, don't try and reload it forever, and get on with life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, then. I might be up your way this summer - I can give you all my scrap .40 and you can cast a bigger cannon, on me

[EricW]

Kevin,

40 really scared the crap out of me at first with all the horror stories floating around. I had a near miss, but that was my fault and not to do with anything inherent in the system. Your reputation for meticulousness should alleviate virtually all the hazards.

All I can add is, what Kimel said.

[Flexmoney]

Federal ammo that had the headstamp of "F C" is commonly believed to be bad brass. The brass marked "FEDERAL" is reported to not have the same issues.

I have seen factory PMC blow out as well.

I won't use PMC or "F C" brass in 40 to make major.

A local shooter sectioned some different brands of 40 brass. The cases showed quite a bit of difference in "integrity".

[chp5]

The only time I had a problem was when I put 9.4 grains of Titegroup under a 180

A double throw - not faulty brass. Ruined the upper, but I was OK. Don't EVER shoot without shooting glasses

[Catfish]

The only time I had a problem was when I put 9.4 grains of Titegroup under a 180 

A double throw - not faulty brass.  Ruined the upper, but I was OK.  Don't EVER shoot without shooting glasses 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to do that.

[kevin c]

Kevin...    ...Your reputation for meticulousness should alleviate virtually all the hazards. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why, thank you, Eric (even though I know that all you're saying is that I am more anal-compulsive than most )

The only time I had a problem was when I put 9.4 grains of Titegroup under a 180 

A double throw - not faulty brass.  Ruined the upper, but I was OK.  Don't EVER shoot without shooting glasses 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one to do that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully, none of us will do that more than once, ever

[kevin c]

A local shooter sectioned some different brands of 40 brass.  The cases showed quite a bit of difference in "integrity".

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By any chance, did this person happen to have pictures or info on the specific brands that you could share with us?

[sargenv]

OK, then. I might be up your way this summer - I can give you all my scrap .40 and you can cast a bigger cannon, on me

Kevin, I'd be happy to take that brass off your hands.. When I load revolver (610)I load minor and that brass would more than likely be fine for that.

Vince

[Carlos]

I use the very worst possible brass there is & have never had a case head seperation. Most of my brass comes from the recycled brass bucket at a commercial indoor range that sends all brass to a commercial reloader who, in turn, sells it back to us again and again. Its been reloaded - 5 times? 10 times? 50 times? Only God knows & its all been "glocked" at least once. How do I avoid KBs?

-Lee brand "U" or Undersized die & Hornady case spray

-Only Single based powders; particularly Vihta Vouri N330 & N320; I believe there is a reason that the Open gun shooters that used to push 180 PF adopted VV as the powder least likely to blow up guns.

-Lee Carbide factory crimp die - only one with a Carbide ring made.

-only Standard small pistol primers (never rifle or magnum); Win or Fed

-at least 1.160" OAL (for the Standard IPSC model CZ) or up to 1.200" for SV .40 w/ Schuemann or KKM.

I also cull out the brass marked "FC" & "Amerc". I use jacketed 180s from either Zero, Star, or the hard-cast & plated Frontier 175.

I personally believe that most case head seperations are caused by set-back. Next most common problem: cheap, spikey double-based powders. It takes more effort to load with the Lee U or undersized die & VV costs more, but so far I have had zero problems with .40 after 3.5 seasons & about 35,000 rounds.

Regards,

D.C. Johnson

[Catfish]

Hopefully, none of us will do that more than once, ever

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tell me about it. That's what I get for using a friend's 1050, that I'd never used before, and being in a hurry. I've probably loaded far over 100k rounds in the past several years, and needless to say, this hasn't ever happened before, and it's not gonna happen again.

[eric nielsen]

Never had either problem myself while shooting about 50K of short 40cal.

2 guys at my club [same ammo recipe] used to separate case heads over & over with 200gr FMJ's & N310 powder at the old power factor, maybe 900fps.

They did it with new brass, old brass, Glock, non-Glock - not sure I ever saw them get thru 50 rounds without a case separation. One in a Para, one in an STI.

[Ray_Z]

I started shooting limited with a glock 24(?) I had case head separation a couple of times before I realized that by resizing all the way down and onto the expanded head of the shell case (Glock unsupported barrel) I was actually thinning out the brass at the point just ahead of the case head. By raising my resize die up a bit I eliminated the problem. Glock chambers are sloppy anyway so the reloads worked flawlessly. That was then. Now is now. 40 brass was a bit high then. Now I don't fool with the resize die. I shoot the brass once and let it lay.