Flexmoney Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 A local shooter sectioned some different brands of 40 brass. The cases showed quite a bit of difference in "integrity". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> By any chance, did this person happen to have pictures or info on the specific brands that you could share with us? I am expecting him to call me any minute. We are supposed to go downtown to attack windmills (trying to fight the Columbus City Council on an Assualt Weapon Ban). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 )off topic) You are a good man even if it does feel (at times) as if you are tilting at windmills. Keep up the good fight & best of luck to you both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted September 16, 2005 Share Posted September 16, 2005 I seam to be the king of case head separations in the group that I shoot with. I only have one kind of 40 brass, that is the brass that has not split yet (yes I shoot them till they split). I also do not play around with power factors (I’ve had the same ammo crono 180pf at one match and do 165pf a month later, granted it was Chinese powder) so I load to a 175-180pf. I first started separating cases loading a surplus Chinese powder, it worked fine for 155gr LRN but when I switched over to a 150gr frangible (they are made of powdered copper and tin, because there is no lead in them they are very long for there weight) it cut my case capacity and spiked my pressure. I switched to WSF and fixed that problem. When I lost my source for the frangible heads I started using a plated 180gr frontier head. I read the forum and decided to try WST as everyone seams to push fast powders and heavy bullets in limited. When I just started to make power factor I got my first case separation. At 5.4gr of WST I separated both Win and PMC cases. I was still only getting around 970fps. I fixed the problem the same way I did before by switching to a slower powder (again WSF). I can run a 180pf with WSF (1000fps with a plated 180gr frontier head) and stay within Win reloading data (I’m loading 6.2gr of WSF at 1.185 OAL). I have not had any problems with my brass since I stopped running the fast powders. Ps the WSF works great with 45ACP. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Why use 5.4 gr. of WST when the Winchester manual has 5.4gr as MAX with 180gr jacheted at 28000psi? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Actually Win lists 5.0gr as the max load for a 40 s&w with a 180gr JHP at 28,100psi. Since we load long I also looked at the 10mm loads and Win lists 5.5 as the max load for a 180gr bullet at 35,200psi. The reason I went over the book load was to make major power factor (I load to 180 power factor because not all chronos are created the same and the match staff tends to believe there chrono). But you’re reply is basically what I was saying, I went back to a slower powder WSF and now I can run a 180 power factor and stay within book specs (6.2gr of WSF is giving me 1000fps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryan45kim Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 (edited) none Edited September 17, 2005 by ryan45kim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyT Posted September 17, 2005 Share Posted September 17, 2005 Actually Win lists 5.0gr as the max load for a 40 s&w with a 180gr JHP at 28,100psi.Since we load long I also looked at the 10mm loads and Win lists 5.5 as the max load for a 180gr bullet at 35,200psi. The reason I went over the book load was to make major power factor (I load to 180 power factor because not all chronos are created the same and the match staff tends to believe there chrono). But you’re reply is basically what I was saying, I went back to a slower powder WSF and now I can run a 180 power factor and stay within book specs (6.2gr of WSF is giving me 1000fps). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I stand corrected. Imeant why use 5.4 gr. when the manual lists the max at5.0 gr. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 I shoot open class using 7.3 grains of Universal Clays under a 135 gr bullet at 1.145 OAL. Western PA match my average was 1312fps for a 175pf. I have never had any issues. I have yet to see any pressures signs this yr on my cases. No bulging at all. Works great so far except that universal tends the have to large of a variance from shot to shot. Actually I just loaded ammo for the Area 5 match. I picked out all the Amer, FC, PMC, S&B and one other that had a star, a line then another star????. Flex pointed these out to me when going to the Michigan match. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrapathy2000 Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 (edited) I havent had any blowups. just bulged casings. hottest I have shot is 7.0gr of PowerPistol with 180gr FMJ. and 8.2gr of Longshot with 180gr bullets. the PowerPistol was intentional the Longshot was a mistake. only shoot with fully supported chambers. unsupported brass is not good. 40sw brass can bulge enough when fully supported. picture I got in my reloading/handloading forum searching another showing chamber support. wish I could give proper credit. posted on one of www.thehighroad.org www.thefiringline.com/forums/ www.glocktalk.com Edited February 17, 2006 by mrapathy2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 wish I could give proper credit. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks for remebering that work of mine. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...ndpost&p=122356 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 21, 2005 Author Share Posted September 21, 2005 I picked out all the Amer, FC, PMC, S&B and one other that had a star, a line then another star????.Flyin40 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That sounds like starline brass. They provide brass for specialty ammo, and sell to individulal reloaders as well. The up side is that it is good brass, by all accounts I've heard. The down side is that if you picked it up already fired, chances are that it was an IPSC load, perhaps on the hot side, and shot through a match gun, some of which, at least in the past, would have overbored chambers to insure feeding at the price of brass life (as opposed to once fired SAAMI spec factory ammo, mostly shot through factory guns, which is what you can get from commercial brass sellers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted September 21, 2005 Share Posted September 21, 2005 Have only had one case/head separation, was shooting some 220 lead in a S&W auto just to see if it would shoot it. It wouldn't. "40 face" is now a familiar term to me. Have seen it several times at matches, and was RO'ing on two separate occasions when it happened. Both times I actually saw the head eject from the gun so I knew pretty fast what happened. One shooter asked for a reshoot, said his extractor was just beefy!!!! Ha!! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigSlick Posted September 23, 2005 Share Posted September 23, 2005 (edited) . Edited December 27, 2005 by BigSlick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted September 24, 2005 Share Posted September 24, 2005 Never had a case separation, maybe 150K rounds of 40cal. I always used one recipe removed from whatever the "hottest" common load was at the time. So when the power factor was 175 & guys blew up brass using N320, I was using N330 or WSL. Now that the power factor is 165, I'm using N320 or TiteGroup instead of N310. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTT - the case support photos are excellent. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 BTT - the case support photos are excellent. Thanks I'm glad you brought this nugget back up to the top. Luca's drawing is a keeper, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2ipsc Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 ... I'm talking about blowups in "reasonable" match loads, and using brass that we pick up or buy and are willing to use for them ... Slightly off-topic, but I'll submit the weirdest .40 "blowup" I've ever witnessed - or will likely ever witness - or certainly hope I ever witness... .40 round lodged in muzzle of a .45 Kimber... What a .45 looks like after such treatment... A young shooter with a brand-new, borrowed .45 Kimber drew on the start signal, only to get an empty "click" when he dropped the hammer. He slapped and racked, then...BOOM... As nearly as anyone could figure, he'd chambered a .40 round on his initial load. When he dropped the hammer, it drove the entire round into the barrel. The .45 set off behind it lodged the .40 in the muzzle, detonating it, and, of course, rupturing the barrel. Took several folks and some heavy blows to beat the gun open to clear the line, whereupon the Kimber's owner sadly gathered up the remains and shipped them back to the factory for salvage/rebuild. Felt a bit like the old, cautionary duckhunters warning about mixing gauges, and setting a 12 off behind a 20 in a shotgun. Certainly a cautionary tale for those of us who switch off calibers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl Provan Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 The only case seperation I have had was testing WST powder. I was using a recommended charge and seating depth. I was shooting each round across a chrono. The velocity spread was about 125 fps form the high to the low. I had a case seperate and send the contents of the mag to the gound. Needless to say I do not use WST for my 40 S&W loads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 ... I'm talking about blowups in "reasonable" match loads, and using brass that we pick up or buy and are willing to use for them ... Slightly off-topic, but I'll submit the weirdest .40 "blowup" I've ever witnessed - or will likely ever witness - or certainly hope I ever witness... .40 round lodged in muzzle of a .45 Kimber... What a .45 looks like after such treatment... A young shooter with a brand-new, borrowed .45 Kimber drew on the start signal, only to get an empty "click" when he dropped the hammer. He slapped and racked, then...BOOM... As nearly as anyone could figure, he'd chambered a .40 round on his initial load. When he dropped the hammer, it drove the entire round into the barrel. The .45 set off behind it lodged the .40 in the muzzle, detonating it, and, of course, rupturing the barrel. Took several folks and some heavy blows to beat the gun open to clear the line, whereupon the Kimber's owner sadly gathered up the remains and shipped them back to the factory for salvage/rebuild. Felt a bit like the old, cautionary duckhunters warning about mixing gauges, and setting a 12 off behind a 20 in a shotgun. Certainly a cautionary tale for those of us who switch off calibers!!! I have seen this same scenario at a local match did about the same damage to the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I have seen this same scenario at a local match did about the same damage to the gun. I've seen the scenario where the .45 had enough extractor tension to hold the .40 on the breechface, and allow the primer to be detonated. That .40 case ruptures and expands right to .45 diameter... Bullet apparently left the barrel, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I have seen this same scenario at a local match did about the same damage to the gun. I've seen the scenario where the .45 had enough extractor tension to hold the .40 on the breechface, and allow the primer to be detonated. That .40 case ruptures and expands right to .45 diameter... Bullet apparently left the barrel, though.... Here too. Fisrst saw it at a match w/ a newby shooting a .40 Glock but having unknowingly loaded 9mm ammo into the mag. Three or four rounds went downrange w/ the shooter hand-cycling between rounds before the RO yelled STOP!. No apparent damage to the gun. Saw it again at the public indoor range where I volunteer; no apparent damage to a Ruger .40 that the shooter was using. Cases looked weird though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Here too. Fisrst saw it at a match w/ a newby shooting a .40 Glock but having unknowingly loaded 9mm ammo into the mag. Three or four rounds went downrange w/ the shooter hand-cycling between rounds before the RO yelled STOP!. No apparent damage to the gun. Saw it again at the public indoor range where I volunteer; no apparent damage to a Ruger .40 that the shooter was using. Cases looked weird though. Different range, different shooter, same result. I was RO'ing a guy who was shooting his first match and he only had 2 spare mags. We had a standards that would require a 3rd. He handed his first mag back to his wife to reload and she stoked him up with 9's while he kept shooting. It turned his .40 Glock into a single-shot, but the bullets did impact the target. I wish I had taken pictures of those swollen cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 I accedently fired a .41 mag in a .44 mag revo. I had to beat the .41 case out of the cylinder with a nail I found on the ground. It split the case the whole length. So, I'm thinking, I hope I never do that again. Next time at the range, I load a .41 mag in a .44 Marlin lever action carbine. I sold the .41. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revchuck Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 I accedently fired a .41 mag in a .44 mag revo. I had to beat the .41 case out of the cylinder with a nail I found on the ground. It split the case the whole length. So, I'm thinking, I hope I never do that again. Next time at the range, I load a .41 mag in a .44 Marlin lever action carbine. I sold the .41. John - Wrong answer. Shoulda sold the .44. I'm glad this thread came back up when it did. I honestly expected the posts to be describing how Glock chambers were responsible for the majority of the problems, and found out it ain't that simple. I'm also glad that my token .40 S&W (a Steyr) is one of the better ones in terms of case support. Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Yeah, I've also seen the 9-in-40 trick on a commercial range that rented out guns. The fairly new shooter was puzzled by the funny keyholed bullet strikes on his target. The range guy who rented him the gun and sold him the ammo saw the brass, which looked like one of those transition pipe fittings, and ran and got him .40 cal ammo pronto, hoping all the while that the manager wouldn't come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 the only case seperations i have seen were with WST powder and 170 grain precision bullets. speer, winchester and remington brass were seperating..at 187 power factor. the rifle primers he was using looked fine...the cases however looked terrible. all that being said, i dont load WST to major anymore and my 40 cal ammo doesnt get rifle primers. and ive never had a seperation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now