ChemistShooter Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 The main reason I reload is to save money. I recently ran across a handgun training system that looks like reloading, at least for pistols, is no longer necessary and seems to be a smarter thing to use. Up till now, there has been no way to completely simulate the experience of firing a pistol. The thing that, as far as I know, is the most important thing to learn to handle is the kick. You can dry-fire all day, but there is no kick. You are forced to go to the range to get that particular experience. These Coolfire guys (http://coolfiretrainer.com/) have finally come up with a way to simulate the kick with a CO2-driven recoil and a laser pulse thingy. And I can't really see why pistol reloading is really necessary any more. Let me list some advantages: 1. I like reloading, but it is a VERY high-concentration thing. There is little room for error at the reloading bench. Plus there is all the knowledge necessary---different kinds of powders, bullets, how much to use. Plus equipment---chronographs, scales, and so forth. Unless you have to have high-precision pistol bullets, I don't see the need to acquire all this any more. I don't shoot to reload. I reload to shoot. 2. This CoolFire thing is actually CHEAPER than reloading. I think .$.03 a shot is the number I heard mentioned. Plus you need ZERO equipment and no special knowledge. 3. It's safer. Can't blow yourself up with bad ammunition you didn't make. No squibs, no undercharges, no overcharges. 4. The time spent pulling a handle is now time you can spend pulling a trigger. That's hours and hours and hous practicing handling kick and doing transitions. This is actually the most attractive aspect for me. Yes, you still need to go the range, but once a month would be sufficient. Add it all up, this CoolFire thing looks cheaper, faster---and BETTER. I can think of one minor drawback. You can't dial in how much kick you want, at least not yet. Has anybody out there actually gone this route? Anybody know any reasons why this won't work? Right at the moment I am seriously leaning toward consigning my 550B to the technological junk heap right next to horse-drawn wagons and moving into the 21st century with my very own laser pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmnielsen Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I've used cool fire stuff. It's expensive, breaks more frequently than it should, and customer service was nonexistent. Also, it simulates recoil but is not anywhere close to being like firing a real round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bockerSV Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 If this were reliable and available for CZ's I would buy one just for the benefit of training the single action in dry fire. It doesn't provide the same feedback as firing a live shot so I don't think it could completely do away with livefire practice, at least in its current form. It'll be interesting to see where things go with this type of technology, I could see a lot of uspsa shooters using something like this for training if you can ditch the laser. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bandw1dth Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Don't be so quick to give up on your 550 just yet. Lucas from the triangle tactical podcast was talking about the coolfire system a while back and from what I remember there's a few things I can give you to think about. Locations to refill the CO2 tank are few and far in between. So co2 availability might be a problem for some people. Can't remember what he said it cost without hunting down the episode. The gun gets really cold from the gas and takes a while to warm back up. I don't think the coolfire trainer supports a wide variety of pistols, so some might be disappointed that they can't use it with their tricked out open guns. IMO I think it's a really great concept but it's not quite there yet. At least not for everyone and definitely not enough to warrant tossing your 550 into the technological scrap bin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 This surely has to be a troll... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, ChemistShooter said: The main reason I reload is to save money. I recently ran across a handgun training system that looks like reloading, at least for pistols, is no longer necessary and seems to be a smarter thing to use. Up till now, there has been no way to completely simulate the experience of firing a pistol. The thing that, as far as I know, is the most important thing to learn to handle is the kick. You can dry-fire all day, but there is no kick. You are forced to go to the range to get that particular experience. These Coolfire guys (http://coolfiretrainer.com/) have finally come up with a way to simulate the kick with a CO2-driven recoil and a laser pulse thingy. And I can't really see why pistol reloading is really necessary any more. Let me list some advantages: 1. I like reloading, but it is a VERY high-concentration thing. There is little room for error at the reloading bench. Plus there is all the knowledge necessary---different kinds of powders, bullets, how much to use. Plus equipment---chronographs, scales, and so forth. Unless you have to have high-precision pistol bullets, I don't see the need to acquire all this any more. I don't shoot to reload. I reload to shoot. 2. This CoolFire thing is actually CHEAPER than reloading. I think .$.03 a shot is the number I heard mentioned. Plus you need ZERO equipment and no special knowledge. 3. It's safer. Can't blow yourself up with bad ammunition you didn't make. No squibs, no undercharges, no overcharges. 4. The time spent pulling a handle is now time you can spend pulling a trigger. That's hours and hours and hous practicing handling kick and doing transitions. This is actually the most attractive aspect for me. Yes, you still need to go the range, but once a month would be sufficient. Add it all up, this CoolFire thing looks cheaper, faster---and BETTER. I can think of one minor drawback. You can't dial in how much kick you want, at least not yet. Has anybody out there actually gone this route? Anybody know any reasons why this won't work? Right at the moment I am seriously leaning toward consigning my 550B to the technological junk heap right next to horse-drawn wagons and moving into the 21st century with my very own laser pistol. 1: reloading is actually pretty simple. Once you have a load, stick to that. A 550 is a hit if a pain since you need 5 hands to feed it brass, bullet, turn shell plate, pull handle. Normal machines with feeders (650, 1050) you just pull the handle. That's it. 2: unless you're planning to shoot your 'coolfire' at matches, practice and perhaps in self defence it's not replacing reloading. It's replacing dry fire which currently costs 0.00 per 'shot'. 3. I don't know where all these self immolating reloaders are but even in practice I see people shoot 5,000 reloads in a few hours and none has lit up like a suicide bomber just yet. Also you're still going to need ammo for matches (unless you're going to bring your laser). Sure you can buy factory which will basically wipe out those savings you made by not practicing and provide a sub optimal load for your gun/division. 4: it takes me 20min from start to finish to load 200 rounds for a weekly practice session. Wow. I'll get 20min back but I'll loose valuable live fire practice. If your reloading takes longer invest in a better machine. That's where the gains are. If if you think you can achieve in the sport with just a laser gun and no live practice I'd suggest think again. Even dry fire legends like Ben Stoeger still shoot upwards of 50,000 live rounds a year. Many shoot 1000,000. Dry fire is great for gun handling (draws, reloads etc). And transitions. This device will add in a 'real' trigger pull so trigger control can be practiced at speed but don't think it gives real recoil. The co2 barrel just cycles the slide/trigger. It's not comparable to live fire. Its also crazy expensive and you get about 10-12 shots between refills. The. When you're main tank is done you get to schlep out to a depot somewhere to buy more c02. Yay. There goes all that time saving you were going to spend on dry fire. Dry fire is great. But you need the real thing too. Once a month is not enough if you want to get good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustygun Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 So chemistshooter, how long have you worked for coolfire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balakay Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Where is the cost savings for competitive shooters?? Still have to live fire at Matches. If your dry:live ratio is 5:1, your dry fire costs will exceed the live fire costs Meh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Rustygun said: So chemistshooter, how long have you worked for coolfire? This is exactly what I was thinking reading that post. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 I highly doubt he's trolling or working for the company. Read his earlier posts/threads and you'll understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChemistShooter Posted April 20, 2017 Author Share Posted April 20, 2017 11 hours ago, bandw1dth said: Don't be so quick to give up on your 550 just yet. Lucas from the triangle tactical podcast was talking about the coolfire system a while back and from what I remember there's a few things I can give you to think about. Locations to refill the CO2 tank are few and far in between. So co2 availability might be a problem for some people. Can't remember what he said it cost without hunting down the episode. The gun gets really cold from the gas and takes a while to warm back up. I don't think the coolfire trainer supports a wide variety of pistols, so some might be disappointed that they can't use it with their tricked out open guns. IMO I think it's a really great concept but it's not quite there yet. At least not for everyone and definitely not enough to warrant tossing your 550 into the technological scrap bin. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yeah, I think you're right. I've been looking around. This technology just flat isn't there yet. One day it will be. You'll be able to dial in the kick you want and have a perfect simulation shot--but it ain't there quite yet. Fudge. Fudge-fudge-fudge-FUDGE. I was really drooling at the prospect of pulling a trigger instead of pulling a handle. Just have to keep an eye on these guys till they or somebody like them comes up with something workable. I'll bet you when they finally come up with something workable, it'll sell like snow cones in Hell and these guys will make more money than they ever thought was possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmorris Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 (edited) If you want to play with non firing simulated "guns" maybe try out for the Olympics. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_guns Just don't do with a real gun what he does at 1:10 in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znon9VvbAB0 Edited April 21, 2017 by jmorris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeerBaron Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Never have to reload again! Think of the savings!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Ghey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, mwray said: Ghey I always look forward to your input on these kinds of topics, and I generally agree with you 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 I always look forward to your input on these kinds of topics, and I generally agree with you 100%.Why because I generally just say what first comes to mind and usually unfiltered? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Just now, mwray said: Why because I generally just say what first comes to mind and usually unfiltered? EXACTLY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 21, 2017 Share Posted April 21, 2017 Somebody has to play the part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustybayonet Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 9:25 PM, ChemistShooter said: Right at the moment I am seriously leaning toward consigning my 550B to the technological junk heap right next to horse-drawn wagons How much for the 550 and what comes with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpssrh Posted April 22, 2017 Share Posted April 22, 2017 This thread--and several others like it--make me wish the Forum Administrators would provide an "Ignore" button that we could use at our discretion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 After reviewing the website, i believe the OP is either a company representative, or an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwray Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 After reviewing the website, i believe the OP is either a company representative, or an idiot. Or bothSent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 Had to go check out the site. I'm not sure what aspect of it is supposed to save money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Ultimo-Hombre said: After reviewing the website, i believe the OP is either a company representative, or an idiot. Go and look at a few of his posts and the answer will be clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted April 23, 2017 Share Posted April 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, Bkreutz said: Go and look at a few of his posts and the answer will be clear. Yep. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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