Kory Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I have noticed the trend. If I am squadded with GM's, my scores go to hell. If I shoot with C and B class shooters, I do much better. I think watching the fast shooters makes me think that I need to speed up, and my hits go to hell. If I am with average shooters, I run my own pace and do much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I am the exact opposite. I shoot way better if I am squaded with the big dawgs than if I am squadded with a bunch of B C and D class shooters. I think it is all in how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I think this is a natural thing. It happened to me before. After awhile you learn to dance to the beat of your own drum and don't automatically pick-up someone else's rhythm. It takes time ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I shot a really good match the last weekend shooting with Jake here. It was a great time to get tips and see how the top guys shoot a stage. You can't let it get into your head if you're shooting with a GM. Shoot your own match, and don't pay too much attention on how fast they shot it, or think how you can't shoot as well as them. You'll pick up a lot from a good shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I do better when with the higher ranked shooters. I try to watch them and learn, maybe a better way to shoot the stage, or where they did their reloads etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Being a limited shooter squadded with mostly open gunners can do the same thing. When you hear the cadence, it's hard not to pick it up. Letting the sights dictate the pace is the only cure I've found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I'm with Jake on this one. I find I do better with better shooters in my squad, especially if I program the stage by airgunning behind them when I fall behind them in the shooting order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 I find I perform the best when I am squadded with people about a class above me and I don't go first. I tend to take my pace off of them, and in general I consider this a bad thing I'm trying to fix. If I'm with slow people, I'm slower. If I'm with faster people, i'm faster. If I'm with people who perform way beyond mty abilities, I push too hard and screw things up. learning to estimate a good, average, and a "nothing can justify going slower than X" time for a stage and then doing my best to come close to the good time consistantly. It's been one of the harder tasks I've tried to tackle in the whole USPSA thing because good run or bad run, it NEVER feels like it takes the time it actually takes. working on it has paid off quite well though, and I'm probably not even halfway to doing it as well as I could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 It's funnier than hell when your squad of M class shooters shoots a stage in 15 seconds, you shoot it in 18, and then Taran, who's also in the squad, shoots it in 11. "Dayum" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRubio Posted May 19, 2005 Share Posted May 19, 2005 Given the choice, I would always rather squad with better shooters. There is always something to be learned from watching someone that is better. i.e. movement within the stage, target engagement sequence, etc. Whats more, the vast majority of these guys/gals have no problem in helping you out and explaining why they did what they did. (After they have already shot, of course, and assuming they did not just crash and burn ) Carlos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark dye Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 I find that I shoot my best when squadded with a bunch of guys approximately my own level (high A or lower level M's). When shooting with much better shooters, I don't use their pace or cadence as a guideline, but I do find myself taking risks that I probably have no business taking. The best way for GM shooter to attack a stage may not always be the best strategy for all of us. I do however, learn a lot from shooting with the Big Dogs! Conversly, when squadded with lower level shooters than myself, I find myself getting "lazy" and not performing up to my potential. When shooting with a bunch of guys near my own ability level, the competition is much more intense and generally a lot more fun. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old shooter Posted May 20, 2005 Share Posted May 20, 2005 Letting the sights dictate the pace is the only cure I've found. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is the correct answer.....Be confident in your ability to see your sights at YOUR pace.... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 I shot a level 2 match here in the phils awhile ago. I squadded with my "master" who usually places nmumber 1 or 2. I did fine till the fastest shooter in the country shot with us. Then i tried copying his moves. He usually beats us by 2-3 seconds! I ended up shooting a lot of mikes copying him. Lesson that i have to hammer to my head is shoot my pace and it will be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Ok I will add to this..... I started this game with at the time the ONLY 2 gun GM in Mississippi...... When I first started I wanted to learn how to shoot as fast as Him, and a few others !!!!!!! 4 years later I now am working on shooting ACCURATELY Fast !!!!!! Hope that helps !!!!! Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 In shooting and golf, I always perform better when I compete against people with a higher skill level. It doesn't hurt that I also tend to learn things that I'd never pick up from folks at an equal or lesser skill level. If I find myself giving solicited advice, or hell freezes over and someone wants to know how I plan to shoot a stage, then I know for sure I'm on the wrong squad. There's a confidence/ego boost factor when shooting with lesser ability shooters, and I tend to perform well at those times, but I'll definitely be shooting in my "comfort zone" and rarely learning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Dimaculangan Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 I'd have to agree with jake on this one. I think I shoot a better match when I'm with other GM's and M's. The pressure and confidence is there, and I'm able to shoot my own game, and also knowing when to be careful, and when to take risks. Then again, if I'm squadded with non-GM's - I'm still able to shoot my own game, by measuring my abilities with theirs - I'll know if I'm actually shooting 'grandmaster' or not just my 2cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 For me it doesn't matter who I'm squaded with. I view a stage or match as me vs. the stage, never me vs. another person. I think if you approach a stage or match as "I have to beat such and such" you placing pressure on yourself that doesn't need to be there and making yourself focus on the wrong things. I have been lucky this yr to shoot with 3 GM on a regular basis. The only thing that changed for me was I focused a little less on my game plan and more on watching how they did things so I could learn. I picked up so many things this yr already that would of took me the rest of the yr to figure out from these guys. Flyin40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted May 23, 2005 Share Posted May 23, 2005 Flyin 40 nailed it. I like shooting with other, more advanced, people only to learn stage analysis. I will give you that if you learn to shoot the stage better that you will in fact improve your results. But I don't honestly believe that's because you're shooting with better shooters, you've simply learned the best way to shoot a stage. If shooting with better shooters somehow opens up the skill level to do what you wouldn't ordinarily do then I am puzzled. When the buzzer goes off, I have no idea who did what. I only know what I am seeing. Shooting with better shooters doesn't change that for me. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Since I began shooting, I have been surrounded by M's and GM's. I believe that shooting with them since the beginning has allowed me to progress quicker than those who have not had this opportunity. These top guys are a fountain of knowledge (when I listen, that is). Not only have they pushed me, they have showed me when to slow down when I get ahead of myself. I have learned so much just by watching them. And they are forever trying to teach me stage breakdown......I still need help here. They have been a wonderful support system for me. Not only do I shoot matches with them, I am fortunate enough to have one of them teach me how to practice too (this sometimes requires the patience of a SAINT). I wish every beginner had the opportunities I have had. With all of this said, I have one more thing to say......... Thank you to all of my brothers on Team Shooters Paradise!!! You are all amazing shooters as well as friends! And Ron I'll just say this......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 If shooting with better shooters somehow opens up the skill level to do what you wouldn't ordinarily do then I am puzzled. When the buzzer goes off, I have no idea who did what. I only know what I am seeing. Shooting with better shooters doesn't change that for me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shooting with better shooters can give you extra confidence. A 15-yard upper-A/B shot might be passed up by many mid-level shooters until somebody better suggests they try it. Many, many shooters don't know what they're capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted May 26, 2005 Share Posted May 26, 2005 Shooting with better shooters can give you extra confidence. A 15-yard upper-A/B shot might be passed up by many mid-level shooters until somebody better suggests they try it. Many, many shooters don't know what they're capable of. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Absolutely true. I had a one-on-one class with Mike Voigt. Found out that I didn't have a problem with strong and weak hand shooting, only with trigger control. Since then, give me strong and weak hand shooting... I can use the extra points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg G Posted May 27, 2005 Share Posted May 27, 2005 For some reason I found this really interesting... To me it seems your knowledge of your own skills, not just your skills should be what dictates how you shoot in a match. What shooting with others at competitions can give you is things to think about. That being said I think there is a tendency to lift when shooting with higher level shooters. Most of the time I decide what I'm going to do, shoot, and see what happens. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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