Magazine coupler

[Gary Stevens]

Your argument is with DNROI. 

[bret]

not arguing, asking questions.

I thought that was the point of this forum.

[Thomas H]

1 hour ago, bret said:

5.2.4

You do realize that 5.2.4 says nothing of the sort...unless of course I'm missing something.

Can you point to what part of 5.2.4 says anything like that?

[Thomas H]

Apparently my mouse button is doubling? 

Edited September 5, 2016 by Thomas H
Double. Apparently.

[Nik Habicht]

3 hours ago, bret said:

can I use coupled mags in handgun?

Do you like shooting one handed -- and more importantly weakhanded?  Do you like really slow reloads?  Does your division of choice have a mag length limit, or does the gun with mag inserted need to fit in a box? If the answer to the first two questions is yes, and the answer to the last question is no, then have at it..... 

[perttime]

8 hours ago, bret said:

if I take a mag out of a gun and put it back in, is that a reload?

I've seen a guy who only had one magazine allowed to do that in a contest. The RO required him to bring the mag behind his hip before ejection and insertion. Don't remember what level that contest was.

[bret]

3 hours ago, perttime said:

I've seen a guy who only had one magazine allowed to do that in a contest. The RO required him to bring the mag behind his hip before ejection and insertion. Don't remember what level that contest was.

what rule says you have to do that? 

The R.O. is making rules up.

[Sarge]

5 hours ago, perttime said:

I've seen a guy who only had one magazine allowed to do that in a contest. The RO required him to bring the mag behind his hip before ejection and insertion. Don't remember what level that contest was.

Level .5

[perttime]

2 hours ago, bret said:

what rule says you have to do that? 

The R.O. is making rules up.

Must have been the rule about figuring out a way to let the guy compete even if he only had one mag...

[jrswanson1]

On 9/4/2016 at 9:49 PM, bret said:

can I use coupled mags in handgun?

Why would you want to? 

[PPGMD]

On 9/4/2016 at 11:06 PM, Thomas H said:

Apparently my mouse button is doubling? 

 

You might want to replace the disconnector and the sear in your mouse.

[mactiger]

Per recent board discussions, I will be retracting the unofficial permission to use couplers.  That will take effect after this weekend, when notice of the change can be sent to all members via the news brief, USPSA web page, and Front Sight, along with social media sites.  The board feels that following the pistol rules in this regard is the best way to go, and it makes sense to do so.  While we don't want to stifle innovation in this division, we are shooting carbines in pistol matches.  And, as I said in another post, this division is provisional and subject to change as we settle in.

So, apologies for the decision on the couplers; I was not alone in thinking they would be OK, but other member input and board decisions have rendered them not legal for use in PCC.  They are still legal in USPSA Multigun competitions.

Troy

[Sarge]

Good call! Thanks Troy

[peterthefish]

Good call! Thanks Troy

Good or bad it's the right call. Thank you to Troy and those that made it happen.

[MikeRush]

I noticed the following:

https://taccom3g.com/product/colt-magazine-coupler/

I wrote Troy asking for clarification on this type of magazine extension. This is really a basepad, or extension as opposed to a "coupler" in the sense that it would permit you to reload from somewhere besides the belt.

I will post any response received here.

[bret]

7 hours ago, MikeRush said:

I noticed the following:

https://taccom3g.com/product/colt-magazine-coupler/

I wrote Troy asking for clarification on this type of magazine extension. This is really a basepad, or extension as opposed to a "coupler" in the sense that it would permit you to reload from somewhere besides the belt.

I will post any response received here.

it is a magazine coupler, they are not allowed in PCC.

[Patrick Scott]

The wording should be cleared up, but Troy said no-go when asked about 2 mags being coupled side by side. I doubt anybody would have a problem with the Taccom product that is using a mag as a mag extension. 

[teros135]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Scott said:

The wording should be cleared up, but Troy said no-go when asked about 2 mags being coupled side by side. I doubt anybody would have a problem with the Taccom product that is using a mag as a mag extension. 

You guys are tweaking words again, trying to get what you want.  What part of this-is-two-separate-magazines-being-joined/coupled-by-a-mechanical-device isnt' clear?

I'm sure Troy would be glad to clarify. 

[rowdyb]

hell, even the maker calls it a coupler in their link, not a base pad. hahaha.

[MikeRush]

2 hours ago, bret said:

it is a magazine coupler, they are not allowed in PCC.

If I weld 2 tubes together end to end that is perfectly legal. If I had a 32 round basepad extension that would be legal.

If Taccom called it anything other than a coupler there would be no question that it would be legal. It clearly does not violate 5.2.4 which is the rule cited in the magazine holder restriction where "coupler" is called out.  If someone markets a dimensionally compliant kydex holster and calls it "Tactical Race Gun Holster", would it be prohibited in production division based on the name, or would we consider whether it meets the requirements? If this product was called a magazine extension would anyone say it allows you to reload from somewhere other than the belt?

At this point there are 40 to 50 round basepad solutions for all the major platforms. It won't add an edge in USPSA. It would help with the outlaw, USPSA style but 40 to 50 round stage matches that seem to pop up.

[MikeRush]

1 hour ago, teros135 said:

You guys are tweaking words again, trying to get what you want.  What part of this-is-two-separate-magazines-being-joined/coupled-by-a-mechanical-device isnt' clear?

I'm sure Troy would be glad to clarify. 

The magazine holder restriction says nothing about magazines being joined or coupled by mechanical devices. Where are you getting that from? If you haven't read the rules there are no restrictions on capacity of a single feeding device. Additionally, the part that references "couplers" is as follows":

No magazine couplers 
allowed, magazines must be 
carried on the belt or in 
apparel pockets. See rule 
5.2.4. No restriction on 
location on the belt. No thigh 
rigs or tie down magazine 
holders.

If you can convince me that joining 2 tubes to create a single, large capacity magazine constitutes reloading from somewhere other than the belt...

[bret]

1 hour ago, MikeRush said:

If I weld 2 tubes together end to end that is perfectly legal. If I had a 32 round basepad extension that would be legal.

If Taccom called it anything other than a coupler there would be no question that it would be legal. It clearly does not violate 5.2.4 which is the rule cited in the magazine holder restriction where "coupler" is called out.  If someone markets a dimensionally compliant kydex holster and calls it "Tactical Race Gun Holster", would it be prohibited in production division based on the name, or would we consider whether it meets the requirements? If this product was called a magazine extension would anyone say it allows you to reload from somewhere other than the belt?

At this point there are 40 to 50 round basepad solutions for all the major platforms. It won't add an edge in USPSA. It would help with the outlaw, USPSA style but 40 to 50 round stage matches that seem to pop up.

it is clearly a coupled magazine, welding 2 magazines together is a coupled magazine.

If you lengthen the magazine by welding 2 tubes together, now it's just a longer magazine.

USPSA should limit magazine lengths to 171.25 mm.

 

[seadog_99]

From USPSA App D8:

No magazine couplers allowed, magazines must be carried on the belt or in apparel pockets. See rule 5.2.4. No restriction on location on the belt. No thigh rigs or tie down magazine holders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Thomas H]

The Taccom device makes the magazine one ammunition feeding device.  There is no restriction on size or magazine capacity in PCC, and magazines (separate feeding devices) are not "coupled" in that there is no need to move from one feeding device to another.

I'm not understanding why people are thinking this would be a problem according to the rules.

The part where the description on the website says "without having to reload" means one feeding device.  And we don't have size/capacity restrictions on single feeding devices.

What part of that is a "coupler" based on the definition as used in the original question to Troy?  (How is this functionally different from adding the Taylor Freelance +12 basepad to a 33-round Glock mag?)

[MikeRush]

52 minutes ago, bret said:

it is clearly a coupled magazine, welding 2 magazines together is a coupled magazine.

If you lengthen the magazine by welding 2 tubes together, now it's just a longer magazine.

USPSA should limit magazine lengths to 171.25 mm.

 

This is lengthening a magazine by joining 2 tubes together. Not 2 seperate mags. Each half would not function without the other. There is only 1 set of exposed feed lips. If this product were called an extension it would just be lengthening the magazine. 

You do realize that if you limit capacity for PCC to 171.25 you would be excluding nearly every standard capacity magazine that ships with these guns? The 33 rd Glock, 32 round Colt, Uzi, and Tavor mags, probably the MP5, MPX, and Scorpion mags as well? Also, how would you measure curved mags with a 171.25 gauge? Do we need to have a new gauge made for each radius of mag? Should everyone be buying 20 round mags and ordering custom basepads to bring them to 171.25?