P.C.C. harder than it looks?

[P.E. Kelley]

Why???

USPSA PCC Rules.

6

Must have stock attached and must be fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed—must be attached to the carbine and fired from the shoulder**

It was due to the ATF rulings on the SIG brace.

That doesn't explain it. IF YOU HAVE a real deal shoulder stock you must use it in PCC but NOT in multigun.

[mreed911]

Why???

USPSA PCC Rules.

6

Must have stock attached and must be fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed—must be attached to the carbine and fired from the shoulder**

It was due to the ATF rulings on the SIG brace.

That doesn't explain it. IF YOU HAVE a real deal shoulder stock you must use it in PCC but NOT in multigun.

That and a pistol is a handgun not a carbine. Not a rifle with a stock, not a carbine.

[MarkCO]

I understand your position, but that is what I was told prompted that verbiage. I agree the wording should be changed. Write your AD and explain your thoughts. That if the best way to effect a change in the verbiage.

[Southpaw]

Why???

USPSA PCC Rules.

6

Must have stock attached and must be fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed—must be attached to the carbine and fired from the shoulder**

This has already been changed (fixed) in the latest proposed PCC appendix from April 12: http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-board-mtg-minutes.php

The link in the rules page (http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-rules.php) still has the old version from March.

[Sumtoc]

Why???

USPSA PCC Rules.

6

Must have stock attached and must be fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed—must be attached to the carbine and fired from the shoulder**

This has already been changed (fixed) in the latest proposed PCC appendix from April 12: http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-board-mtg-minutes.php

The link in the rules page (http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-rules.php) still has the old version from March.

Aha...... this settles the point in my earlier post. Thanks for digging this up, I don't go digging into meeting minutes for this kind of info. Guess they need to update the website.

Thanks for clearing it up.

[Jadeslade]

Yes it does have to be shouldered.

Does shoulder position mean shouldered? Or does it mean in the area?

This a good statement. Stealing it.

[Jadeslade]

No. PCC is easier than it looks. Especially SBR. Alphas are infinitely easier, especially on the metric top A zone. More control, same caliber. Nice.

[P.E. Kelley]

Why???

USPSA PCC Rules.

6

Must have stock attached and must be fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed—must be attached to the carbine and fired from the shoulder**

This has already been changed (fixed) in the latest proposed PCC appendix from April 12: http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-board-mtg-minutes.php

The link in the rules page (http://www.uspsa.org/uspsa-rules.php) still has the old version from March.

Aha...... this settles the point in my earlier post. Thanks for digging this up, I don't go digging into meeting minutes for this kind of info. Guess they need to update the website.

Thanks for clearing it up.

And here is the latest info as linked above.

Now, ya can shoot off your shoulder.

6

Must have stock attached and be capable of being fired from shoulder position. **Note: Sig Brace and any variant thereof is not allowed**

[Nemesis Lead]

I am not a PCC shooter, but it will be really fascinating to watch gun development if PCC really takes off.

My guess is that if this becomes a seriously competitive division, then M4 based platforms will be replaced by something that:

1) Reloads through the pistol grip (easier reloads and shorter carbine). Perhaps even with a magwell.

2) Something that is gas powered and not blow back (less felt recoil).

3) Perhaps (and I could be very wrong here) something that does not have a stock in line with the bore, but rather an M1 carbine type stock that would allow you to put the optic very close to the bore line to reduce bore offset. However, this may increase felt recoil to the point that this is a non-starter.

4) Comps that actually work for a 9mm (not sure if this is really feasible).

5) Something that comes with 35+ round magazines as standard equipment.

6) Something that reliably locks back on the on an empty mag (nice to have).

7) Something with very ergonomic controls for the bolt release, magazine release, and safety.

8) Something that has lots of barrel length options for the NFA guys.

I know of no PCC that would have all of these attributes.

Some of these things would help PCC close the gap with pistols in some areas.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Nemesis Lead

[rishii]

Except for the gassed operated part and 35 round mag, you described an uzi

[NickBlasta]

Could you make a reliable DI gun out of something like 9 major or 38 super to give it enough gas pressure to cycle?

[M1911]

Except for the gassed operated part and 35 round mag, you described an uzi

How is the Uzi trigger on a semi-auto Uzi? On the open-bolt, full-auto Uzi, I assume that the trigger isn't great, but I realize that the semi-auto fires from a closed bolt. Is there any way to mount an optic on an Uzi? I would imagine the top-mounted charger would get in the way.

[trgt]

I am not a PCC shooter, but it will be really fascinating to watch gun development if PCC really takes off.

....

Some of these things would help PCC close the gap with pistols in some areas.

Too bad one option (in CA) we can't explore is the PDW kits for pistols like http://www.czub.cz/en/pdw-konverze.html for CZ-P09. Otherwise you could build an P09 with compensated barrel, add this, have fun. Wonder if this / SBR will be used other areas.

Edited June 25, 2016 by trgt

[Garrett]

Except for the gassed operated part and 35 round mag, you described an uzi

How is the Uzi trigger on a semi-auto Uzi? On the open-bolt, full-auto Uzi, I assume that the trigger isn't great, but I realize that the semi-auto fires from a closed bolt. Is there any way to mount an optic on an Uzi? I would imagine the top-mounted charger would get in the way.

While it will never have a crisp 2lb 1911 trigger, the Uzi trigger is quite manageable. There are topcover mounts available. They either mount to the rear, or use a side-cocking lever to utilize more real estate on top.

Here's a Franken-Uzi race gun that I set up more as a joke than anything.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Garrett

[Garrett]

The down-side of the semi-auto Uzi is it seems you need three hands sometimes to clear a malfunction. There is no provision to lock the bolt open.

[M1911]

While it will never have a crisp 2lb 1911 trigger, the Uzi trigger is quite manageable. There are topcover mounts available. They either mount to the rear, or use a side-cocking lever to utilize more real estate on top.

Here's a Franken-Uzi race gun that I set up more as a joke than anything.

Cool, in a franken sort of way.

[MikeRush]

Could you make a reliable DI gun out of something like 9 major or 38 super to give it enough gas pressure to cycle?

Yes.

[jkrispies]

Except for the gassed operated part and 35 round mag, you described an uzi

How is the Uzi trigger on a semi-auto Uzi? On the open-bolt, full-auto Uzi, I assume that the trigger isn't great, but I realize that the semi-auto fires from a closed bolt. Is there any way to mount an optic on an Uzi? I would imagine the top-mounted charger would get in the way.

While it will never have a crisp 2lb 1911 trigger, the Uzi trigger is quite manageable. There are topcover mounts available. They either mount to the rear, or use a side-cocking lever to utilize more real estate on top.

Here's a Franken-Uzi race gun that I set up more as a joke than anything.

No flashlight/laser illuminator combo??? C'mon...

[Garrett]

No flashlight/laser illuminator combo??? C'mon...

No, it's heavy and goofy-looking enough already.

Note, I said it was a Franken "race gun". I use it sort of like this for subgun matches. No need for all the tacticool junk too.

:-)

[jkrispies]

No flashlight/laser illuminator combo??? C'mon...

No, it's heavy and goofy-looking enough already.

Note, I said it was a Franken "race gun". I use it sort of like this for subgun matches. No need for all the tacticool junk too.

:-)

Ain't nothin' without a bayonette.

[Garrett]

Ain't nothin' without a bayonette.

Now you're talking!

Funny you should mention that. We have the MI State Subgun match coming up in August. I've got a stage designed that starts with a bayonet charge on a target. Should be a blast.

[rishii]

Except for the gassed operated part and 35 round mag, you described an uzi

How is the Uzi trigger on a semi-auto Uzi? On the open-bolt, full-auto Uzi, I assume that the trigger isn't great, but I realize that the semi-auto fires from a closed bolt. Is there any way to mount an optic on an Uzi? I would imagine the top-mounted charger would get in the way.

I have no idea, the last uzi I shot was 30 years ago and it was full auto ?

[M1911]

I have no idea, the last uzi I shot was 30 years ago and it was full auto

The only open-bolt gun I've shot was a S&W M76. The trigger wasn't a thing of beauty.

[prestonj12]

Looks like a blast. Still another month before I get my tax stamp I'm thinking.

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[Rangerdug]

I am not a PCC shooter, but it will be really fascinating to watch gun development if PCC really takes off.

My guess is that if this becomes a seriously competitive division, then M4 based platforms will be replaced by something that:

1) Reloads through the pistol grip (easier reloads and shorter carbine). Perhaps even with a magwell.

2) Something that is gas powered and not blow back (less felt recoil).

3) Perhaps (and I could be very wrong here) something that does not have a stock in line with the bore, but rather an M1 carbine type stock that would allow you to put the optic very close to the bore line to reduce bore offset. However, this may increase felt recoil to the point that this is a non-starter.

4) Comps that actually work for a 9mm (not sure if this is really feasible).

5) Something that comes with 35+ round magazines as standard equipment.

6) Something that reliably locks back on the on an empty mag (nice to have).

7) Something with very ergonomic controls for the bolt release, magazine release, and safety.

8) Something that has lots of barrel length options for the NFA guys.

I know of no PCC that would have all of these attributes.

Some of these things would help PCC close the gap with pistols in some areas.

Don't forget something that is under $1

Or maybe with magic beans or a golden goose... or never misses

That was a low and said in jest, but I am confused how all that, ties into this thread. How "PCC is harder than it looks".

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