All competition shooters, front cocking serrations: Yes or NO?

[sn0wflake]

I like to keep all guns horizonthal to the ground and looking into the ejection port when loading/charging them so I can see the round go in and no weird stuff happening. When the load command has been given in the sports I do its only like a few seconds left until we start shooting. so therre is no need or time to second guess that loading process. But hey if you see it go in, it has gone in, and you saw it do that, no need to check it another time imo.

I still like the "just in front of the ejection port" location for serrations though. It just cant get any more ergonomic and better than that imo. Sadly no one makes guns like that.

[motosapiens]

GunBugBit is not the only one who chamber checks as part of their make ready routine...

This thread may be enlightening to you:

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=223894&hl=+checking%20+the%20+chamber

i have no issue with people that chamber check. Sorry if someone mistakenly got that impression. this thread is about forward cocking serrations. many people were talking about using them for press checks, so I just indicated that I use them, but not for press checks.

my backup gun does NOT have forward cocking serrations, which I never really payed attention to until I used it for a recent match that had 2 unloaded starts. I definitely had to be more careful and pay more attention to my grip on the slide when racking.

Edited May 18, 2016 by motosapiens

[motosapiens]

I like to keep all guns horizonthal to the ground and looking into the ejection port when loading/charging them so I can see the round go in and no weird stuff happening. When the load command has been given in the sports I do its only like a few seconds left until we start shooting. so therre is no need or time to second guess that loading process. But hey if you see it go in, it has gone in, and you saw it do that, no need to check it another time imo.

I still like the "just in front of the ejection port" location for serrations though. It just cant get any more ergonomic and better than that imo. Sadly no one makes guns like that.

what do you do while shooting the stage? watch the round go in? or just trust that if it worked at LAMR it will work the other 31 times on the stage?

Edited May 18, 2016 by motosapiens

[sn0wflake]

I dont know what a LAMR is or does. but yeah if I see the first round go in without problem I expect at least another 500 to do that too. At least.

[goshimu]

LAMR is load and make ready.

I use the front serrations on my stock 2 for everything.

[prestonj12]

I like and use them.

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[perttime]

My first exposure to self-loading centerfire pistols was when I got a Government temp job in a Peace Keeping mission: I was issued a Sig P226 to carry, in addition to the assault rifle. We had to carry with empty chamber, so I picked the surest and fastest way to rack the slide, minimizing the need for fine motor skills: grab the slide from above, at belly level, with thumb and index finger on rear serrations - push gun through and meanwhile maybe pull back on the slide. Haven't felt a need to break that habit.

I'm more gentle when handling an empty gun.

[BeerBaron]

I like to keep all guns horizonthal to the ground and looking into the ejection port when loading/charging them so I can see the round go in and no weird stuff happening. When the load command has been given in the sports I do its only like a few seconds left until we start shooting. so therre is no need or time to second guess that loading process. But hey if you see it go in, it has gone in, and you saw it do that, no need to check it another time imo.

I still like the "just in front of the ejection port" location for serrations though. It just cant get any more ergonomic and better than that imo. Sadly no one makes guns like that.

Cz tactical sport has them a fair way back from the muzzle. Just in front of ejection port. Cz shadow does too but they are crappier serrations.

[4mike]

my vote for YES :-)

[MonkeyPlague]

I've got them, but I never use them.

[ricardo28]

Racking overhand from the back covers the ejection port more than using just my thumb over the top and from the front. If you guys are scared, get a dog.

Couldn't agree more. Love mine. We rep and rep movements. Rep out proper FCS racking till its muscle memory. My support hand moves straight up, thumb over, rack. Never ever have I flagged my hand. Agree using rear cup racking covers chamber every time. It's a gun, it's dangerous and explodes, get over it and stop being scared.

I do thing they look better without but function over form.

[Distant Thunder]

I just love the real he-man bravado "get over it" talk. It reminds me of when I did physical therapy treatments on people who were seriously injured while doing something idiotic because they thought it was cool. To each their own.

[ricardo28]

So using FCS is a safe manor is a heman bravado? Because some think it's unsafe and others (heman) think it's safe? We shoot guns and allow others to shoot guns near us, really? I'm more afraid of someone shooting others than I am of shooting my hand.

[Distant Thunder]

Shake hands with a patient whose non-dominant hand is now a virtually useless claw and/or missing fingers (I guarantee it's an experience you'll never forget), THEN get back to me about the importance of saving a fraction of a second off the clock in a game where we are punching holes in cardboard and knocking down/ringing steel.

[ricardo28]

Well your the first to meet someone I ever heard of who shot their own hand using FCS. I have never met anyone nor heard of someone who had first hand experience of someone shooting their hand while using FCS.

We all know the risks involved in using a firearm and we practice and train safe. Why is it different if I safely train one way that you don't agree with? Isn't there risks involved in overhand on the rear? Your fingers cover the ejection port using this method. I always hear that people blow their hand up this way also yet never heard of a first hand experience either.

Edited May 27, 2016 by ricardo28

[Distant Thunder]

Which is why I use the pinch method where the hand is above and to the rear of the slide grasping it with the index finger and thumb. Even if an accidental discharge occurs (so long as the gun is pointing in a safe direction), there's no blood or body parts on the ground. You may color code your underwear (yellow in front, brown in back), but you go home with a fully functioning hand and all your fingers.

Edited May 27, 2016 by Distant Thunder

[ricardo28]

I use that exact method of grasping, just at FCS. I have never flagged myself because of how I move my support hand. Moves straight up , never losing contact with the gun. Like many, I train painfully slow until muscle memory builds. A mistake can happen. I get it but that goes for everything we do while moving and shooting, even using the rear.

[Distant Thunder]

Using the pinch method from above on the front cocking serrations isn't safer, you've just moved the risk farther upstream to the base of the hand and wrist when the slide is fully racked to the rear and they are exposed to an open chamber with a live round. If the primer contacts the ejector the results are far from what could remotely be called safe. It's not just the shooter on the line involved with this discussion. The upcoming juniors will be watching as well. Hopefully their parents/guardians will see to it that they conduct themselves in the safest manner so that they can enjoy the shooting sports for a lifetime.

[ricardo28]

My hand is no closer to the chamber when open than using the rear. I don't cover the port when open either. My hand is to the left side with my thumb over the top, never exposed to the open port more than using the rear.

Edited May 27, 2016 by ricardo28

[tbarker13]

Don't mind serrations on a competition gun. But I hate the look. Much prefer the cleaner look of a 1911 without them.

[BrianKr]

I've seen them and don't care about them. I don't want to pay extra for them, that's for sure, so I voted no. Frankly, I don't know what I'd do with them if any of my guns had them. I use the slingshot method, and on LAMR I can see the cartridge going into the chamber. I know that the rest will do the same thing that the first one did. If I do shoot the gun dry, again, it's the slingshot method and I've never had a problem. The gun works 100%; I wish I was as reliable. Heck, my old SSs were (and are) just as reliable also.

Seriously, I don't know what I'd do with forward serrations. I guess if I thought I needed them I'd get a different gun and my present CO gun is NOT terribly expensive. I've had much less expensive guns that were just as reliable. But I shoot for fun and to keep myself sharp for CCW and have absolutely nothing riding on the next match or even the next stage. I look at my M&P sitting next to me with a laser/light unit on it and I know my stubby fingers can't reach under the dust shield and laser to use any FCS. I also don't want to reach over the optic to the front when the rear serrations are so much easier to find and that area of the handgun is also part of my malfunction drill. I try not to complicate things with additional moves that need to be remembered when adrenalin is flowing. KISS works for me. But maybe I'm missing something; it wouldn't be the first time.

I have far more use for an extractor that tells me by tactile feel in the dark if a cartridge is in the chamber. It doesn't need to protrude, it can be recessed when the chamber is empty and flush when a round is chambered. The type that requires light for me to see brass through a hole in a closed breech is pretty useless IMO.

I guess when it comes to FCS that I think, for myself anyway, that it's a solution in search of a problem.

[Distant Thunder]

My hand is no closer to the chamber when open than using the rear. I don't cover the port when open either. My hand is to the left side with my thumb over the top, never exposed to the open port more than using the rear.

Still scratching my head on this one. Does this make sense to anyone else? Maybe a picture would help.

[TonytheTiger]

I started racking the slide by clenching it between my butt cheeks. That way if a primer hits the ejector and goes off I take the hit and everyone else is safe from shrapnel.

[Distant Thunder]

I started racking the slide by clenching it between my butt cheeks. That way if a primer hits the ejector and goes off I take the hit and everyone else is safe from shrapnel.

Love it!

[TonytheTiger]

I started racking the slide by clenching it between my butt cheeks. That way if a primer hits the ejector and goes off I take the hit and everyone else is safe from shrapnel.

Love it!

There are downsides however. I had to checker the whole slide, which can be painful. Also really hot days can render this technique very difficult.