MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If growing the sport is that Mr. Foley has in mind, adding PCC only canibalizes the sport and disrupts the already established divisions. There is likely to be little to no net membership gain. Though the sample size is probably small, how many members here are not already USPSA members and plan to join USPSA because of PCC? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If growing the sport is that Mr. Foley has in mind, adding PCC only canibalizes the sport and disrupts the already established divisions. There is likely to be little to no net membership gain. Though the sample size is probably small, how many members here are not already USPSA members and plan to join USPSA because of PCC? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk It will probably only pull in a few at most in each club but it does give the game another dimension for new and established shooters alike. Not really getting this cannibalization/disruption claim. Some guy/gal shooting PCC instead of their usual Limited for a weekend here and there is in no way disruptive to people in any other division. Similarly USPSA isn't going to implode because PCC is added. At the very worst there will be no net change in participants, match attendance, or fun factor which is nothing close to the statement "PCC will only canibalize...and disrupt." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division? Edit: read your question wrong. They are all USPSA shooters seeing as I know them from USPSA. I maintain that PCC doesn't need increase membership in order to be a viable division option as long as it is run safely and is fun. The only threat to the later is making sure shooters only shoot one gun per match which is a no-brainer. Edited February 12, 2016 by FearsomeCritter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 QQ - can PCC do single handed shooting? Is it considered safe for matches! Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division? Well fearsome 17 post guy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division?No where did I made that claim or suggestion.I just want to figure out how much membership gain we are expecting by adding PCC? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Video from Foley on PCC https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byubawDsnFo I hope he is spending as much time trying to address all the issues with USPSA that he campaigned on fixing as he is on making PCC videos ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 QQ - can PCC do single handed shooting? Is it considered safe for matches! Yes. He demonstrated doing so in the video. I hope he is spending as much time trying to address all the issues with USPSA that he campaigned on fixing as he is on making PCC videos ... I have zero doubt that he's working his ass off to fixing things but it's not going to happen overnight. Nor are we going to have PCC added as a provisional division overnight. I know you're primary a steel challenge shooter like myself so why the hate for PCC? What am I missing here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 QQ - can PCC do single handed shooting? Is it considered safe for matches! Yes. He demonstrated doing so in the video. I hope he is spending as much time trying to address all the issues with USPSA that he campaigned on fixing as he is on making PCC videos ...I have zero doubt that he's working his ass off to fixing things but it's not going to happen overnight. Nor are we going to have PCC added as a provisional division overnight. I know you're primary a steel challenge shooter like myself so why the hate for PCC? What am I missing here? Whoa turbo... PCC is gonna happen next BOD meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division?Well fearsome 17 post guy.... I only became literate just recently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishsticks Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh shit. Watched the video. Sorry guys. I negotiate for a living, Foley appears in my opinion to be behind this. Buy a PCC or be left behind. Sorry. I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division?Well fearsome 17 post guy....I only became literate just recently Right on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Whoa turbo... PCC is gonna happen next BOD meeting. I think we will get the draft appendix next meeting but not approval as a provisional division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Maybe PCC will take off. Maybe it will fizzle. I don't think so, but I would be disappointed if we didn't at least try to make it work. I like a having a president who is willing to stand up and pursue what he thinks is right. In spite of opposition. IDPA self-imposed a hard limit on the level of fun per stage/match/division/sport. Why should USPSA follow suit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilkMyDuds Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brooke Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk I doubt that, but so what. Some of them have already fizzled. 3Gun, though poorly organized, has proved that people like shooting stuff other than pistols. Denying them the opportunity in USPSA just makes them go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearsomeCritter Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk I doubt that, but so what. Some of them have already fizzled. 3Gun, though poorly organized, has proved that people like shooting stuff other than pistols. Denying them the opportunity in USPSA just makes them go elsewhere. I bet initially most PCC shooters will be USPSA shooters that try it out occasionally but won't actually ditch their established division. Ideally, PCC would help grow the sport and new shooters who start in PCC would try out other divisions as well -- this is all speculation though. There will probably be a few people less in lim/open/etc at local matches while they try out PCC and then it will even out. Even if what you say comes true, and some divisions fizzle at the cost of PCC flourishing I'd argue that the shooters will have then voted by participation for PCC over said fizzled division(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk I doubt that, but so what. Some of them have already fizzled. 3Gun, though poorly organized, has proved that people like shooting stuff other than pistols. Denying them the opportunity in USPSA just makes them go elsewhere. Just to point out one flaw in that logic......USPSA has multigun. Edited February 12, 2016 by Strick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh shit. Watched the video. Sorry guys. I negotiate for a living, Foley appears in my opinion to be behind this. Buy a PCC or be left behind. Sorry. I concur. I disagree with both of you. Why will I be left behind? I love shooting my Limited gun (and the occasional SS when i feel like punishing myself). Having 2 or 3 or 10 guys show up to our local matches with PCC and having fun won't stop me from still loving my Limited gun and trying to be a better shooter. I might even have more fun because I'd get to watch something new and different. I don't own a PCC and I doubt I'll go get one just for this. If someone shows up and says "hey i brought enough for both us if you want to borrow mine", then I might have some fun on a Sunday morning. If you want to talk about "being left behind" at a major where you could lose our ever-so-huge prize table winnings, I don't see how. If you don't shoot in the PCC division, then it matters nothing to you and your scores at the end of the day. Lets say 1st place in every division wins a brand new gun at a given major. If 150 PCC guys show up and DOMINATE the day and the first place SS guy finishes 151st overall....he still wins the division and wins a gun. There is nothing to be left behind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stony Lane Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I support PCC, but I think it would work better with separate matches. Pistol only or carbine only matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtturn Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk cannonball-ization sounds awesome. Edited February 12, 2016 by wtturn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bkreutz Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk cannonball-ization sounds awesome. Oooh, Oooh, Oooh, new division "Carry Howitzer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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