shel6977 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Possibly should be in reloading but since it's only about the shadows, thought it might be better suited here. I just picked up a shadow target and am coming from m&ps. My two main loads for the m&p were Xtreme 147gr RN 1.155" OAL AND Acme coated 147gr FP 1.130" OAL both with bullseye for powder. The xtremes will still work but the profile of the FP is making so that I would need to get down to 1.095" and maybe just under for alittle extra room to pass a plunk test. I switched to the Acme bullets all last year because it was very accurate and about the cheapest to buy. I know the Cz has a pretty short throat so my question is what is the best to do? I can ream the barrel to be able to shoot the longer FPs, switch over to a 147gr RN which would most likely be Blue Bullets because Acme doesn't have a 147gr RN profile & the Blue Bullets are about the next cheapest option, or load the Acmes short and maybe back the powder off a grain or two and redo a load development. I've heard some ream the barrels and others go to a different bullet. The whole idea is to keep one load so if I have to use the back up m&p, I still use one load. Ideally I would have another Cz as a back up but that's more money than I want to spend right now. So what has everyone else that has run into this problem done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArrDave Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Folks who want one load for multiple guns ream the CZs usually Sent from an iDevice. Please forgive any grammatical or spelling errors. If the post doesn't make sense or is not amusing then it is technology's fault and most certainly not operator error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurusty Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I had a similar problem, but I decided to make a load that worked decent in both, only because it's for USPSA and not bullseye. I use black bullet international 135 grain roundhouse at 1.130 OAL with 5.2 grains of longshot. It runs good enough for me in both of my 9's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdave24 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I thought the Shadows had the barrel reamed for longer bullets. Is that incorrect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I thought the Shadows had the barrel reamed for longer bullets. Is that incorrect? If they are reamed, mine was extremely short to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 I had a similar problem, but I decided to make a load that worked decent in both, only because it's for USPSA and not bullseye. I use black bullet international 135 grain roundhouse at 1.130 OAL with 5.2 grains of longshot. It runs good enough for me in both of my 9's. I'm not looking for bullseye loads either. This is for USPSA production and 3 gun only so I'm after one load that will be serviceable in both guns. I'm no opposed to changing bullet profiles but am wondering what others have done because I know I'm not the only one to run into this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I reamed all of mine with a Dave Manson reamer ($40.00) to load ACME 147's to 1.135. I have a large quantity of these loaded for both CZ's and Glocks. Works great. It takes about 10 minutes per barrel and you are done. I don't have to worry about which gun I shoot or loading to different OAL's they will all take the same length. Groups shot before and after if anything showed a slight improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 I just order a trial packs of the blue bullet 147gr RN to try out. If I can't get a load that works for both guns, I guess I'll look at reaming the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I just order a trial packs of the blue bullet 147gr RN to try out. If I can't get a load that works for both guns, I guess I'll look at reaming the barrel. I load those bullets at 1.110 with 3.1gr of Bullseye. Works alright Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shel6977 Posted January 16, 2016 Author Share Posted January 16, 2016 Well it looks like I'm going to have to ream the barrel. The blue bullets 147gr RN showed up and to get them to pass a plunk test, I have to load them down to 1.100" OAL. This seems extremely short for a heavy RN bullet to me. I haven't shot any yet so I don't know how they will shoot or if there will be any pressure issues, just seems like it should be longer than that in that bullet weight and profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I've not reamed mine. I load to the pistols, including the Blue 147gr. For the record, the Blue Bullets are a little undersized for lead/coated at .355. Precision is lackluster in my CZ pistols, but I learned last week that they shoot well out of both my HK VP9 and Glock. I suspect the polygonal rifling handles the undersized Blue Bullets better than the land and groove rifling of the CZ.ACME is great. You seem already to have figured that out. Stick with that. Most 9mm brass will handle seating/insertion depth down to .300 (where the case walls start to thicken) without issue. You can actually go a bit deeper than that with beveled-base bullets. So you CAN load those ACME 147 right now if you like, but if you're set on reaming, you're probably better off not doing the load development twice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slidestop Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 Possibly should be in reloading but since it's only about the shadows, thought it might be better suited here. I just picked up a shadow target and am coming from m&ps. My two main loads for the m&p were Xtreme 147gr RN 1.155" OAL AND Acme coated 147gr FP 1.130" OAL both with bullseye for powder. The xtremes will still work but the profile of the FP is making so that I would need to get down to 1.095" and maybe just under for alittle extra room to pass a plunk test. I switched to the Acme bullets all last year because it was very accurate and about the cheapest to buy. I know the Cz has a pretty short throat so my question is what is the best to do? I can ream the barrel to be able to shoot the longer FPs, switch over to a 147gr RN which would most likely be Blue Bullets because Acme doesn't have a 147gr RN profile & the Blue Bullets are about the next cheapest option, or load the Acmes short and maybe back the powder off a grain or two and redo a load development. I've heard some ream the barrels and others go to a different bullet. The whole idea is to keep one load so if I have to use the back up m&p, I still use one load. Ideally I would have another Cz as a back up but that's more money than I want to spend right now. So what has everyone else that has run into this problem done? I've got the same exact results with the Acme 147gr fp in my SP01. With 1.10, some would still touch the lands, so I reduced the oalto 1.095. As I bought 500 to try, I guess I'll stick with them for a while. On a side note, the Bayou 147gr fp can be loaded out to 1.14. I really wanted to try the Acme without the lube groove. I should have bought a trial pack, as I usually do, but I just KNEW that these would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerlrrp Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I've not reamed mine. I load to the pistols, including the Blue 147gr. For the record, the Blue Bullets are a little undersized for lead/coated at .355. Precision is lackluster in my CZ pistols, but I learned last week that they shoot well out of both my HK VP9 and Glock. I suspect the polygonal rifling handles the undersized Blue Bullets better than the land and groove rifling of the CZ. ACME is great. You seem already to have figured that out. Stick with that. Most 9mm brass will handle seating/insertion depth down to .300 (where the case walls start to thicken) without issue. You can actually go a bit deeper than that with beveled-base bullets. So you CAN load those ACME 147 right now if you like, but if you're set on reaming, you're probably better off not doing the load development twice. I'm getting different diameter measurements from my Blue Bullets. The following were done with a calibrated Mitutoyo sub micron digimatic micrometer. It appear Excel doesn't paste well here....basically 0.3562 average diameter. Manufacturer Sample Number Nominal Diameter Nominal Mass Diameter 1 (0 deg) Dia 1 Inch Diameter 2 (90 deg) Dia 2 Inch Mass Mass Dev. Blue Bullets 1 9.042 125 9.053 0.3564 9.051 0.3563 125.1 0.1 Blue Bullets 2 9.042 125 9.051 0.3563 9.049 0.3563 125.3 0.3 Blue Bullets 3 9.042 125 9.050 0.3563 9.053 0.3564 125.0 0.0 Blue Bullets 4 9.042 125 9.048 0.3562 9.052 0.3564 124.9 -0.1 Blue Bullets 5 9.042 125 9.047 0.3562 9.042 0.3560 124.8 -0.2 Blue Bullets 6 9.042 125 9.051 0.3563 9.053 0.3564 125.1 0.1 Blue Bullets 7 9.042 125 9.050 0.3563 9.055 0.3565 125.5 0.5 Blue Bullets 8 9.042 125 9.052 0.3564 9.051 0.3563 124.4 -0.6 Blue Bullets 9 9.042 125 9.042 0.3560 9.046 0.3561 124.9 -0.1 Blue Bullets 10 9.042 125 9.052 0.3564 9.051 0.3563 124.4 -0.6 Blue Bullets 11 9.042 125 9.049 0.3563 9.050 0.3563 124.5 -0.5 Blue Bullets 12 9.042 125 9.051 0.3563 9.046 0.3561 124.6 -0.4 Blue Bullets 13 9.042 125 9.048 0.3562 9.050 0.3563 124.5 -0.5 Blue Bullets 14 9.042 125 9.049 0.3563 9.055 0.3565 124.8 -0.2 Blue Bullets 15 9.042 125 9.047 0.3562 9.051 0.3563 124.8 -0.2 Blue Bullets 16 9.042 125 9.043 0.3560 9.048 0.3562 124.6 -0.4 Blue Bullets 17 9.042 125 9.048 0.3562 9.051 0.3563 124.4 -0.6 Blue Bullets 18 9.042 125 9.047 0.3562 9.050 0.3563 124.7 -0.3 Blue Bullets 19 9.042 125 9.048 0.3562 9.051 0.3563 124.4 -0.6 Blue Bullets 20 9.042 125 9.050 0.3563 9.046 0.3561 125.0 0.0 Blue Bullets 21 9.042 125 9.042 0.3560 9.043 0.3560 125.0 0.0 Blue Bullets 22 9.042 125 9.049 0.3563 9.044 0.3561 125.2 0.2 Blue Bullets 23 9.042 125 9.048 0.3562 9.047 0.3562 125.2 0.2 Blue Bullets 24 9.042 125 9.052 0.3564 9.048 0.3562 125.5 0.5 Blue Bullets 25 9.042 125 9.049 0.3563 9.046 0.3561 125.3 0.3 Edited January 17, 2016 by huskerlrrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darqusoull13 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I ran Blue Bullets 147 gr over 3.2 grains of Bullseye loaded to 1.150" OAL yesterday. No hiccups at all. Luck of the draw on CZ barrels maybe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta391 Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I ran Blue Bullets 147 gr over 3.2 grains of Bullseye loaded to 1.150" OAL yesterday. No hiccups at all. Luck of the draw on CZ barrels maybe Just started to experiment with these 147 FP bullets. Able to plunk test 1.15 in my shadow. So either different bullet profile or as stated above, luck of the draw on CZ barrels? https://www.ibejiheads.com/ Good luck...... Edited January 17, 2016 by beretta391 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowenbuilt Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I have collected quite a few CZ's lately and you are correct about the luck of the draw on leade length. My SP01 Shadow was very short, some of the non-Shadows I have purchased lately were longer and all were slightly different. They are all uniform now and all take the same OAL. I don't really understand the aversion to reaming them to a particular length. If you do it correctly you get a very nice smooth finish in the throat which looks much better than the stock finish. It is really hard to screw this up unless you just get carried away or put undue pressure on the reamer. The weight of the reamer handle does all the work and if you use the correct type of oil and remember to lift the reamer just as you are making the final cut it doesn't get any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 I don't really understand the aversion to reaming them to a particular length. I can tell you that my original aversion to it came from a CZ smith recommending against it because of the possibility (not likelihood) of messing up the barrel. Since it was easy enough to load short, I loaded short. At this point, I'm no longer averse to it, I'm just accustomed to dealing with it. I am getting somewhat curious about it though, not so much because I feel a need for it, but because I'd simply like to ream a barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I'm getting different diameter measurements from my Blue Bullets. The following were done with a calibrated Mitutoyo sub micron digimatic micrometer. It appear Excel doesn't paste well here....basically 0.3562 average diameter. I'd be curious to see what what your micrometer says about ACME or Bayou or SNS. Edited January 17, 2016 by IDescribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huskerlrrp Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) I'm getting different diameter measurements from my Blue Bullets. The following were done with a calibrated Mitutoyo sub micron digimatic micrometer. It appear Excel doesn't paste well here....basically 0.3562 average diameter. I'd be curious to see what what your micrometer says about ACME or Bayou or SNS. If I had some, I'd measure them. I measure in two spots @ 90 degrees of each other. Averages in bold below for Black bullets and Montana Gold. Avg Dia 1 Avg Dia " SD Dia 1 SD Dia 1 " Avg Dia 2 Avg Dia 2 " SD Dia 2 SD Dia 2 " Blue Bullets 9.049 0.3562 0.0029 0.00012 9.049 0.3563 0.0035 0.00014 Black Bullets 9.055 0.3565 0.0035 0.00014 9.055 0.3565 0.0053 0.00021 Montana Gold 9.014 0.3549 0.0008 0.00003 9.014 0.3549 0.0011 0.00004 Edited January 17, 2016 by huskerlrrp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CZinZA Posted January 17, 2016 Share Posted January 17, 2016 (edited) There's nothing wrong with loading at 1,1 inches for 9mm in a shadow. It's quite normal in the rest of the world. It only seems to be in the US that people like loading longer than the cartridge specifications - there's no real need to do that Sent by Jedi mind control Edited January 17, 2016 by CZinZA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valerko Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Before you ream the barrel , try crimping little more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
himurax13 Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Have you guys tried the plunk and the spin test with your finished loads on the barrel? If the cartridge does not move freely, then reaming or shortening the rounds are your only options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDescribe Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 There's no mystery going on here. He needs to load shorter or ream the barrel. He knows that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 I have tried MG CMJ 147's and had to load at 1.085....Same with MG 124 JHP's, 1.085....Precision Delta 147 FMJ RN I could load at 1.150....Current load is a home made cast 147 much like this one https://www.ibejiheads.com/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=5&osCsid=dc59fca6ceaa64afb4325eb082434cd1which is loaded to 1.150. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMaus Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 (edited) Its a Shadow, load it short. I am loading a 135gr LRN to 1.095. Susan Island 135gr Hytek coated LRN (dia 0.3565) 3.6gr AP70 (Universal) Federal SPP OAL 1.095 PF 133 A few people have found their Shadows are more accurate loaded even shorter Edited January 18, 2016 by BMaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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