Harmon Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Ok, i have been talking to folks and either im confused or they are.. loading 40s long...advantage...STI gun feeds better. disadvantage...wont shoot in a glock... there seems to be a myth that loading long makes the gun kick less...i dont see how...it should kick more. i figure when you load longer, it takes more powder to get the same power so more powder means more recoil...that is according to hodgdons recoil formula. i dont see any need in 40s at 1.25 inches...especially if the gun will feed em at 1.130... maybe folks are just doing this to make their ammo kinda their "own" so if your gun is reliable with short ammo, why load longer and burn more powder for no gain in performance?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Reasons that have been stated for loading long: - Feeding reliability - decreased case pressure - less distance the bullet has to jump to the rifling (improved accuracy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
achard Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Reasons that have been stated for loading long:- Feeding reliability - decreased case pressure - less distance the bullet has to jump to the rifling (improved accuracy) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> consistent power foctor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 As I have loaded .40 for 12 years, never found the need to load longer than factory OAL. never had a feeding issue and as long as the barrel leade is cut normal there is not the jump that would happen. To load long the barrel leade does neat to be increased (longer than SAAMI Spec) to allow the longer cartridge OAL to be chambered. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.40AET Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Less pressure is the only reason that I load my ammo long. My Para was much happier with longer ammo. My S*I will shoot factory ammo all day. I still load to 1.200" with the intent of keeping the pressure as low as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reneet Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Feeding reliability is the only reason I load long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 Ihave been told that "Long is Good", so I just go with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipster Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I have several .40's and I load all of my ammo to 1.120 and they work flawlessly in all of my .40's. Why mess with success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I load to 1.145 and it still works in Glocks too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted April 4, 2005 Share Posted April 4, 2005 I have to admit that the only reason I load long is because I read it here. My Para feeds my 1.20" JHP and factory Winchester 165 FMJ ammo equally well (100%). However I haven't shot more than 200 rounds of factory ammo, so I still feel it's a good idea to listen to those who've gone before me. The accuracy factor makes the most sense, even though I haven't seen any difference in actual shooting. Of course I still use a FCD for every handgun caliber I load even though I've never had a problem with my ammo. I HAVE seen others have problems, so I call it cheap insurance. Same thing with loading long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted April 5, 2005 Author Share Posted April 5, 2005 Reasons that have been stated for loading long:- Feeding reliability - decreased case pressure - less distance the bullet has to jump to the rifling (improved accuracy) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> consistent power foctor. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i dont have any trouble with consistent velocity. the others are good points, but the only reason i would load long would be to make the gun 100 percent reliable.. with a custom STI i would wait before i free bore the chamber and only do it if it needed longer ammo to run reliably. i dont see any need to freebore to accept 1.250 inch loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 From a long time rifle reloader, when loading for accuracy we candle the bullet. Make up a dummy round (no powder or primmer and seat it extremely long with no crimp at all) then put this dummy round over the top of a candle which will blacken the bullet. Some use a magic marker here these days. In bolt action rifles the bullet is then feed into the chamber and the bolt closed. This will seat the bullet in the dummy round to touch the lands. You must then back off or rather seat the bullet deeper than this. I read reduced pressures for seating long with some concern. Yes reduced pressure will occur with the same amount of powder with a longer overal lenth IF the bullet doesn't touch the lands. If the bullet is up against the lands pressures will rise dramatically. So yes, reduced pressure in a longer than a shorter case with same powder GIVEN that the bullet's overal length does not touch the lands. In very hot rifles cartridges like my 7mm mag, by getting too close to the lands, you have to take your press' random variation into account, you can make a relatively decent load and start to flatten primmers, see primmers back out or even blow gases back past the primmer - all signs of over maximum loads for your rifle. Now to the orignial question regarding automatic pistols - I don't have a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted April 5, 2005 Share Posted April 5, 2005 i load long too due to these forums. here is a recent chrono using vv320, and lead heads in the phils and an oal of 1.215" 984,983,984,984,980 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gino_aki Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I've always had to load long for my Para Open gun because I've got those older 10mm magazines...1.192 oal. Adds advantage of larger case volume so I've also not had pressure problems loading 7.4 gr of WAP, or 7.3 of WSF behind Hornady 155 XTP's and Federal 100 primers, varied cases. 1169 fps, 181.2 PF, UNRAMPED barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I load long because I can, short ammo makes me angry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulm540 Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I load long because fast powders a nd heavy bullets don't mix well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Flex wrote: "[1]- Feeding reliability [2]- decreased case pressure" 1)I recently worked on a custom built-from-parts STI that was tight & ran perfectly well & 100% on .40 loaded to 1.200" OAL; there did not appear to have been any throating of the barrel done. The gun was sold to a gentlemen who is limited to factory ammo only (long-loaded .40 not an option). THis STI would not run at all with many brands of factory .40 (i.e. short .40). Some Limited 1911s & 2011s run fine on the short stuff (Every Para I have ever seen/shot/worked on ran on short ammo) - but some do not - or rather - they do not run well. 2) Most reloading manuals will state that the .40 is sensitive to OAL changes. Meaning? -Pressures can dramaticaly increase with small DECREASES in OAL. There are CERTAIN powders that some competitors choose to use in USPSA that would probably generate case-seperating pressures if loaded to "short" lengths like 1.125". What powders? I would not dream of using either N-310 or straight Clays powder to 168-170 PF at 1.125" OAL. I believe that loading .40 to Major at that length WITH those two powders is just asking for a blown case or worse. Those same two powders, however, are often used at 1.200", usually without excessive pressure or other problems. Thus, loading to 1.200" allows the use of powders that would otherwise generate dangerous pressures in .40 at Major. Regards, D.C. Johnson www.shootersparadise.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuildSF4 Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 I load long. Partly because it was recommended for feeding reliability, and partly due lower pressure with a longer load (as long as it is not forced into the rifling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cautery Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 As I have loaded .40 for 12 years, never found the need to load longer than factory OAL. never had a feeding issue and as long as the barrel leade is cut normal there is not the jump that would happen. To load long the barrel leade does neat to be increased (longer than SAAMI Spec) to allow the longer cartridge OAL to be chambered.Alan <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mmmmm.... I don't know about 1911s, but Glocks with "normal" leads and throats cut in the chamber have a very large projectile jump prior to touching the throated lands (much less getting to the full height lands)... Example: G22 w/ KKM G22D1 barrel with Remington TC JHP bullets: The "typical" OAl is 1.126 recommended in the manual. The projectile makes first contact with the lands at 1.301"... That's a 0.175" or almost 3/16" jump to the lands... ASSUMING the round is actually headspaced on the case mouth rather than the extractor groove.... Typically, you can add anywhere from 0.003-0.006"+ depending on the case free measurement, as most Glock chambers are 0.850 " to the headspacing shoulder, and NEW brass is ALWAYS shorter than this. Starline quoted me 0.843-0.848" for their NEW brass.... quite a large tolerance BTW... and 40 S&W shrinks from firing to firing... the magnitude primarily dependent on the chamber diameter... looser chambers allow the brass to flow more. Loading long in a "stock" Glock chamber doesn't give you near the accuracy increase (due to mag constraints and large lead dimension) as I suspect the 1911s do because max OAL while still able to feed reliably still results in a significant jump... the 1911 based weapons 9again due to mags) can load much longer than Gocks, and thus their bullet jump is much reduced. However, at some point, loading too long 9besides reaching feed problems) might actually be counterproductive as the total tension/retention area is reduced... I did a preliminary test of reducing bullet jump in a G22 several years ago, and achieved a respectable 30+% group size reduction over the stock barrel and almost 20% group size reduction over a "stock" KKM barrel... This was with a non-optimized chamber design and a non-optimized load (I didn't tailor the load for accuracy... only semi-physical consistency from round to round). Bottom line.... loading long has serious accuracy implications IF you optimize chamber design. I am working on this project again BTW... This time with a more optimized chamber design and in a G35. Results will be reported here on the forums if anyone is interested. I found a place to get the new barrels today in fact. If you are interested in reading my old article, check: HERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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