At What Piont Do 1911's Become "limiting"?

[boo radley]

I am new to this sport, and have recently started shooting in local, club or range, loosely-scored "Action Pistol" and "IDPA" events, using a stock 1911 Kimber.

In my area, are some more formal sanctioned IPSC and IDPA matches, and I'd like to compete.

I also have a vague craving for another pistol; no real reason except I do, and I wouldn't mind giving the Kimber a rest, or having a back-up. I don't yet reload, but will soon -- this is getting expensive! But someone recently suggested that 1911's were somewhat limiting for IPSC, and I should look into something like the Glock35, for a second pistol.

I'm curious -- does that in fact make sense? It seems to me that both IDPA and IPSC have (and will continue to have) divisions embracing single-stack 1911's, but then again, I don't know much, and could be very wrong. I don't understand the classifications as well as I'd like, though I'm sure I will with experience.

Anyway, if I *were* going to get a second pistol in the < $1k range, would you recommend getting a 2nd 1911 in .45acp and sticking with it? Or moving to something with hi-caps, in .40s&w? Thx!

[Chriss Grube]

I high cap .40 double stack 1911 style pistol is the ruleing gun. Glock is good for production, A few have been competitive with them in Limited and L-10 but not alot. Check out the rules and shoot a few matches before you jump in with new gear purchases.

[D.Hayden]

Right now, 1911s would normally compete in Limited-10. No reason for another pistol at all. For clubs I go to 1911's (almost always 45s) are the primary pistol in Limited-10.

The Glock 35 can shoot in a number of Divisions: Production, Limited-10, or Limited - by changing magazines, holster, etc.

Doublestacks - normally compete in Limited. You're not competing with them. They'll normally have faster times, but so what?

I'd stick with what you have, shoot the crap out of it.. in a year, you'll know what you want, and not need to spend the money twice.

[XRe]

The answer, of course, is that it depends on what you want to do. As BerKim says, w/ a SS .45, you'd be competing in L-10, and won't be shooting against the hi-caps directly (although, there's some merit to *acting* like you are - it'll drive you to improve)...

I fully understand the drive to get a new toy However, you can learn an awful lot shooting a SS pistol, and it's perfectly competitve in IDPA, and in L-10 in USPSA. You would learn a lot more, and become a better shooter, if you dumped that $1K into a Dillon and components, and, if you don't have 'em, some 10rd mags for your pistol, and possibly some good leather.

There are guys that can shoot a SS pistol better than a lot of folks shoot their Open class guns Keep that in mind

[Loves2Shoot]

Why get another gun less <1K ? Sound like what you have is good enough. The 1911 is the ruling platform. If you want another gun, get a high cap .40 with a bushing barrel and you can play in IDPA too. Pistol cost is not the "big" cost, ammo is. .40 is cheaper to reload.

[ipscron2000]

I'll tell you what everybody told me when I first showed up at my first IPSC match. Shoot what I have and learn the game. The more your around other people and their guns you will figure which division you like best. Of course I was in a hurry and spent $4,500 on open gun, loader, gear, bullets, primers.... blah blah blah

Do as I say, not as I do.

Stay with the Kimber for several matches. I still love breaking out my Kimber CDP and having some fun.

[vincent]

Assuming your gun is reliable and fits your hand then your money is better spent on professional training and practice ammunition than another gun.

Getting started in reloading is a great way to spend any money that is burning a hole in your pocket. You realize the cost savings over factory ammo very quickly.

Now if you just want a new gun for the sake of having a new gun that's another story.

[EricW]

Factory 1911's under 1K are a crapshoot on their best day. Buy ammo instead.

[dirtypool40]

Q: "At what point do 1911's become limiting?"

A: At a lot higher level than anyone on this planet shoots.

Sorry couldn't resist. I know, I know, he was asking about moving to Open / Limited, but when I first read the question I thought he meant the action type itself. That's just the answer that popped into my head.

Real answer:

Shoot what you have and spend the money burning a hole in your pocket on a 650 and all the goodies to make it run. That alone is about $1500. I know I did exactly what I am suggesting. I started with and shot my basically stock Kimber custom for two years. My first big investment was a full on 650 in 9mm/.40/.45.

THEN I saved up for a Limited blaster.

[boo radley]

Thx, all.

I am ashamed to admit I did not know about 10-round mags for the 1911, and had figured if I shot, say, Limited-10, I'd have only 8+1 vs. other people not shooting 1911's....

(Although I can safely say, a couple rounds more or less in the mag. isn't a concern at this point).

I might as well completely expose my ignorance -- at what point, if ever, is having a spare a consideration? I've just finished putting about 1k rounds through the Kimber. I realize this is nothing, but I also read/hear mention of mysterious things like "shock buffs" and replacement springs, etc., so there's got to be *some* wear and tear and maintenance concerns?

At any rate -- I do think a reloading press is the next move (and only move in the near future), regardless. This site has been tremendously helpful in that regard, and I'm leaning heavily towards the Dillon Square Deal in .45acp. I'm aware of the drawbacks, but really don't see myself loading more than 1 or 2 (at most) pistol cartridges, and if I ever start loading for rifle, I'd probably use a cheap simple handpress.

[jhgtyre]

At any rate -- I do think a reloading press is the next move (and only move in the near future), regardless. This site has been tremendously helpful in that regard, and I'm leaning heavily towards the Dillon Square Deal in .45acp. I'm aware of the drawbacks, but really don't see myself loading more than 1 or 2 (at most) pistol cartridges, and if I ever start loading for rifle, I'd probably use a cheap simple handpress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Now that sounds like a very good plan.

-ld

[XRe]

Don't be ashamed There's a fairly steep learning curve when you get into this stuff. Luckily, this forum has amassed a large amount of data about this sport. I'm just getting back into it, myself, and its been invaluable for me in figuring out what's changed since I stopped playing several years ago.

For what it's worth - I'm jumping back in w/ an STI Trojan in .40 - similar to your Kimber, in that its a SS 1911, and will have a max capacity of 10 rounds.

You will wear things out - eventually. But, springs are replaceable. Shok-buffs aren't completely necessary - some folks like 'em, some don't. Some folks run light recoil springs and use a buffer to help soak up some of the extra energy, while some run light springs and don't, etc... Keep it well lubed, and you should get a *bunch* of rounds through the pistol with no problems. A backup can be useful if you start attending major matches a lot - but most stuff that breaks can be easily purchased, fit, and kept as a backup part. You might upgrade things along the way and can save the old parts as backups.

An SDB ought to do you well. I've loaded on one, in the past, and it definitely gets the job done....

[Sam]

Boo, you have the right pistol. Single stack 1911's are fully competitive in L-10 division and also great for IDPA and other actions sports. All you need now is a Dillon reloader.

[j1b]

Boo

You are on the right track. I was like dirtpool - the terms "limiting" and "1911" should never go in the same sentence - but then not knowing there were 10 round mags would make me understand the question.

The 1911 is THE platform in this sport and has been for ages. I wouldn't anticipate a change. I personally shoot a Single Stack better but of course I have a hi-cap I shoot at matches. Like the others - everynow and again its fun to bust that sucker out and rock. From a shooting perspective nothing fits better (for me)

So yeah, pick up the reloader and have fun. You are properly equipped as you are.

JB

[The Hangin' Chad]

Boo

I started with a Stainless Pro Carry which I quickly realized wasn't as competetive as a 5" model (in my hands). I picked up a used Classic Custom Target, added fiber optic front sight, magwell and mag release and shot it for about 2 years before getting my STI limited gun, and then shot that for about a year before getting my STI open gun. I'm very glad I did it this way because I learned alot with each gun which I carried with me to the next gun which put me that much further ahead.

I bought a used Square Deal B which I still have on the bench ready to make .45 at will, even though it is now partenered with a 650 capable of spitting out .40 or 38 Super very rapidly and consistently.

The path you are looking down is definitely a good one seeing as I've already walked it.

Let me recommend the Chip McCormick Power 10 mags from Midway, they are under $20.00 and if you catch them on sale they are about $18.00 or less. I know that there are mixed opinions on these but I use them and many other people do too and like them very much.

For spare parts I would recommend a recoil spring, link, firing pin stop, extractor and ejector, all of these parts are pretty inexpensive.

Hope this helps.

THC

[Flexmoney]

If you Kimber runs well...get some 10 round mags for it, then spend your money of a Dillon reloader.

[Ron Ankeny]

Oh for crying out loud, ignore those party poopers, thay are so full of it. Get into the equipment race and become an equipment junkie.

Do what I did. I started out with a single stack .45. But I wanted that softer shooting .40 with a well you can throw a magazine into at arm's length. So I got the Limited gun. I traded that off for an Open blaster so I could have that optical sight and a comp to flutter my eyebrows and rattle my teeth. Somewhere in between I dumped some cash on a revolver. Of course I also tinkered around with a Production gun. In a period of four years, I threw a bucket load of cash at all five divisions. Of course, every time I traded guns, I lost my butt in the deal, and I have a tousand dollars (or more) in accessories stuffed in the closet that I will never use. Then there is all that left over ammuntion. BTW, I am right back to the single stack 1911 I started with when I was a C class shooter.

On second thought, maybe you ought to listen to the other guys.

[Precision40]

Anyway, if I *were* going to get a second pistol in the  < $1k range, would you recommend getting a 2nd 1911 in .45acp and sticking with it? Or moving to something with hi-caps, in .40s&w? Thx!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's kinda like asking "Which color car should I get?" If your perfectly happy shooting a single stack, then by all means keep doing it. Spend some money and give the Kimber a good trigger job, magwell, fiber optic front and you'll be doing all that much better. The great thing about single stacks is that their competitive in both USPSA and IDPA.

If your seriously wanting antoher single stack, I'd go with the STI Trojan before anything else. Maybe even a Springfield Loaded. Anything else is either hit and miss as far as quality goes.

[boo radley]

Ron -- Yes! I understand that approach, completely.

Seriously, thx again, y'all. I'm very happy with this Kimber in fact. It's a series II, with the dreaded external extractor, which has done nothing less than work flawlessly for 1k rounds (granted, this is with different makes of commericial ammo).

I can see the advantages of a fiber-optic front sight. I've put some dayglo orange paint on the sight, but if the light is slightly dim, or backlighted, it still appears dark. Not a big deal, and I'm loathe to surrender the pistol to a shop, at the moment, since I want to shoot.

And don't have a back-up.

But -- reading this thread, and forum in general, I can appreciate the wisdom of focusing on reloading, and some other accessories, first.

[tightloop]

what Ron said....

[shred]

And don't have a back-up. 

This is the joy of shooting something common like a 1911-- all your friends bring a backup. I've been in lots of matches where people end up sharing one gun when one dies midway through.

Don't let that stop you buying more though. You can never have enough (until you have to move, that is)

[XRe]

Just a couple of quick thoughts re: a backup - if you have an equipment failure during a match, you're going to zero the stage anyhow. A good number of things that might break are easily replaceable in the field - for instance, if that external extractor were to break, you could strip the gun and replace it in the safe area (with a little knowledge about how it all goes together - at least, I think you can, I've never torn one apart, but they look simple...). You could always order another extractor from Kimber, and fit it (if required) ahead of time, in case it breaks. Other things that you might build up over time - slide stop, an extra safety, the various coil springs, firing pin.

If something worse happens, well, finishing the match won't be so important It's quite likely that you won't break *anything* and won't have a need for a backup - if you're a recovering Boy Scout (like me), you might take comfort in having some spares. But, I don't think you'll have any problems, either way.

I have my first FO front sight on my Trojan. I thought I might have some difficulties switching to it from having shot an Open gun for a long time. So far, so good - I don't seem to notice it directly when shooting, but it seems to help the front sight profile stand out more. Is your front sight dovetailed?? If so, you can probably swap it yourself. You can do a staked sight, too, but it's a little trickier and requires a tool to stake the sight.

Another advantage you'll find in reloading is that you can load *down* (most factory stuff is *way* major - 180 PF +++) and have a more controllable recoil profile, too.

[Tman33_99]

Yeah what Xre Said.

When you end up shooting hundreds if not a thousand or more rounds each month, it is bound to start to take a toll on a pistol and parts will break. Within the past few months I have had firing pin stop break, and an extractor break. I am going to start caring the following in a small plastic baggy in my range bag.

Extractor

Firing Pin

Firing Pin Stop

Firing Pin Spring

Recoil Spring

Any other 5 minute replacement parts I should carry? I won't carry trigger parts because I don't feel comfortable playing with my trigger. Slide stop can be swapped from my carry gun in a pinch. I might consider a back-up safety.

[DogmaDog]

Don't buy a new gun. Spend the money on the reloading equipment. Right now your limit is how many rounds you can put down range in practice and competition. Reloading will get you some more.

Once you've done that, and reloaded a while, you can start thinking about whether you want to shoot in a different division than Limited-10. I started with a Kimber 1911, too, and decided to move to limited because there were many more shooters in that division, and I wanted more competition, so I got an STI 2011 in .40...but that's more like $2000 (or $2500 when you add all the mags, holsters, pouches, etc.).

Your 1911 won't ever hold you back in L-10.

DogmaDog

[XRe]

Any other 5 minute replacement parts I should carry?  I won't carry trigger parts because I don't feel comfortable playing with my trigger.  Slide stop can be swapped from my carry gun in a pinch.  I might consider a back-up safety.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Safeties seem to be somewhat breakable, due to their construction. I'll be installing an ambi on my pistol in the relatively near future, and I'll be saving the original as a backup.

Also - I find the plastic boxes that Dillon uses for 650 conversion kits are *perfect* for holding small parts, tools, etc, in the shooting bag. They cost $2.50 each, if you don't have a 650. Money well spent....