Chuck Anderson Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 The big names used to use light bullets because the Steel Challenge used a wired stop plate. The faster the bullet got there, the lower the overall time. That's why you never saw 147 grain SC loads, even if they wanted to try pushing them at 100 PF. Since USPSA did away with the wired plates a couple years ago and went to last shot fired it's really not a big deal. The old guys still using the mousefarts have been using them and don't see the need to change. If someone wants to shoot 125 they really aren't at a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well it's chasing off some new shooters when they say to me, man that's BullSh11 using that ammo.. I thought it was USPSA rules.. really? I'm the MD for a local weeknight steel match. We get many many new people every year. I've never heard anyone say anything about PF. I'm not even sure anyone knows that rule. AFAIK, the uspsa s hooters all use their normal gear. the open and limited guys are generally shooting 165+pf, and the good ones still win the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttownracer Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Minimum PF for centerfire classes would reduce a variable that may give one shooter an advantage over another. Why any different than for USPSA classes. Makes sense to me and I hope they implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasley Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 I would be against a minimum power factor. The idea of super light loads is intriguing but I have yet to go down that road. I use 115 grain bullets loaded to the bare minimum that will give reliable function with a stock Glock. My ammo is about the least of my problems as far as being competitive with the top shooters at our club match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted November 2, 2015 Share Posted November 2, 2015 Well it's chasing off some new shooters when they say to me, man that's BullSh11 using that ammo.. I thought it was USPSA rules.. really? I'm the MD for a local weeknight steel match. We get many many new people every year. I've never heard anyone say anything about PF. I'm not even sure anyone knows that rule. AFAIK, the uspsa s hooters all use their normal gear. the open and limited guys are generally shooting 165+pf, and the good ones still win the match. Right, I was thinking, how big of a factor is recoil in Steel Challenge, anyway? In almost all cases, recoil recovery is complete by the time the shooter has transitioned to the next target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted November 2, 2015 Author Share Posted November 2, 2015 Minimum PF for centerfire classes would reduce a variable that may give one shooter an advantage over another. Why any different than for USPSA classes. Makes sense to me and I hope they implement. Yep.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 shooters who have the best recoil management skills have an advantage over shooters who don't .... what PF their load is has almost nothing to do with it ... and since there is no actual data to support the theory that low PF shooters are "winning all the SC matches" I wouldn't be holding my breath for HQ to even consider changing this .... The monthly SC match I run is on the first Sat of the month & you're all welcome to come shoot it & bring whatever PF load you'd like .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 As a MD the last thing I would like to see added to steel challenge is power factor. We don't need it. Can you see adding a chrono stage to every Tier 2 or higher match. No thank you. As long as it makes a mark on the steel you're good to go. That being said I do shoot my USPSA production loads in steel. That way I just load one load and don't have to worry about keeping steel and USPSA loads separate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted November 3, 2015 Share Posted November 3, 2015 Exactly. Only the 'hard-core' SC shooters develop a separate load. Most USPSA shooters just use their normal load since they use SC matches as a way to cross train and don't want a different load. And if they are a top tier USPSA shooter then they are in SC as well regardless of what load they shoot ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 As a MD the last thing I would like to see added to steel challenge is power factor. We don't need it. Can you see adding a chrono stage to every Tier 2 or higher match. No thank you.As long as it makes a mark on the steel you're good to go. That being said I do shoot my USPSA production loads in steel. That way I just load one load and don't have to worry about keeping steel and USPSA loads separate. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 ...Most USPSA shooters just use their normal load since they use SC matches as a way to cross train and don't want a different load... I like having one load that works for all matches -- USPSA, Steel Challenge and practice matches. For me, .45 ACP at the lower end of major PF out of a 5" 1911 feels quite nice. I might change my whole line of thought about this some day but for now it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted November 12, 2015 Share Posted November 12, 2015 I tried developing a lower PF load for SC that my Open racegun liked but in fact it never liked going below 150 PF so I pretty much left it at major unless the venue had a max velocity limit (then I did not shoot it). For my old Limited 9x23 gun I developed a load that was around 120-125 PF for shooting SC. Right now in my G34 I use 147g at 1000 FPS because I can either buy it or reload it for Limited and for Open I use 124g at 1299 FPS because NATO level ammo gets the barrel ports to work well enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Whyte Posted December 11, 2015 Share Posted December 11, 2015 I think the 750fps is only a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 I think the 750fps is only a suggestion It's not in the rulebook there fore if the bullet exits the barrel it's going fast enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornetx40 Posted December 12, 2015 Share Posted December 12, 2015 Minimum PF for centerfire classes would reduce a variable that may give one shooter an advantage over another. Why any different than for USPSA classes. Makes sense to me and I hope they implement. SCSA has its own set of rules. It never has had a min PF. There is no advantage you can shoot whatever you want.Just because your normal USPSA load is a higher PF than what someone else is shooting doesn't mean the other shooters should shoot a higher PF. Hell if that was the case then why is Prod class allowed to shoot Minor while other classes have to shoot major...Oh wait they have a choice to shoot the lower PF.....How about we just play by the rules for the sport we are shooting not another sport. Steel challenge is a totally different kind of shooting than USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R8Shooter Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 When I started shooting SC 3 years ago I went through a ton of mouse fart loads thinking it would help. Once I go faster I figured out that on the longer shots I was having to wait to hear the ding before continuing. It caused hesitation. Heck I got to where the a 25 yard shot followed by a close shot nearly hit at the same time. LOL Now I shoot hotter loads with my revolver and run faster than most of the rimfire. So what difference does power factor really make? Let people play with their loads, in the long run like was said before, it's going to come down to who puts in the work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 This subject reminds me of the whiners in my racing career. When people plateau they tend to think that anyone going faster must be cheating because they can't perceive anyone going faster than they can perceive. Untrue totally (but they had a hard time comprehending even when I showed them the data). To break thru a plateau you have to start doing something you are not currently doing. Racing and shooting are connected because success at both requires a higher perception of speed. You can't shoot faster accurately than you can perceive your targets. You can't drive faster than your brain can perceive your markers on the track. Its almost identical to tracking your targets in shooting. Once your perception of speed goes up everything around you appears to flow slower so you have more "brain" time to do things. I broke thru plateaus in my racing at least twice that I knew of, and each time It was like a revelation or epiphany. My perception changed. Things that I thought were constants became variables that I could feel and see. The more track time or shooting time you do the more likely it is your perception will change. But if all you do is the same amount of work all the time you won't get better. Point is don't latch onto something that makes little or no difference in the long run and miss what is really important. BJ once told me that if they added a new stage to SC, he could go home, set it up, and 5k rounds later he would have it perfected. Not just because that's how to do it but that is what he would do as he knows what it takes. In most sports it takes twice as much work or more to get to the next level. What makes anyone think that shooting is any different? When people say that someone has a talent for something they don't really get it. What really happens when someone seems to be a "natural" is their brain is already wired correctly(perception) to see what to do. Everyone else may take longer or never make it. Many like Brian Enos, Keith Code, Warren Chamberlain, and others have tried to make people see this in all kinds of endeavors. Not everyone "gets" it. Don't get hung up on things that make no real difference. Otherwise the top guys know no one will catch them because we are all getting hung up on the small stuff. Your goal is to give the top guys problems not help them stay on top. Doing the work is more important than the little details. I think Master Yoda said it best "Do. Or do not. There is no try." I slacked off near the end of this year and my scores got worse. That is why I am putting an SC stages in my back yard. No matches anytime soon and I need to practice, practice, practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 (edited) When you shoot Steel Challenge Production Division, anybody know how many rounds are you allowed to have in your Magazine ? Edited December 22, 2015 by bigtimelarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjordan78 Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted December 22, 2015 Author Share Posted December 22, 2015 Oh so it follows USPSA Production Rule... Got it, Thanks.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) And you have to use an IDPA type holster also. No race holsters in Production SC. Or Single Stack either. By that I mean the holster can't have a gap between the gun and your body except a very small amount. Edited December 23, 2015 by photoracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Is this one legal ? It's USPSA Production Legal.. http://benstoegerproshop.com/bsps-boss-dropped-offset-doh-holster/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Is this one legal ? It's USPSA Production Legal.. http://benstoegerproshop.com/bsps-boss-dropped-offset-doh-holster/ If it is legal for USPSA Production, then it is legal for SCSA Production. Just be sure it is adjusted to fit within the rules...not too low, too far forward on your belt, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ano Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 if it cycles, its good, you you load low and it doesnt cycle, you loose... so this limits itself, I fail to see problem and need for PF, your only shooting each target once. I was faster than most guys at last steel nationals.. with a 45acp in singel stack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtimelarry Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Yeah, leave it the way it is.. Follows USPSA Rules for Everything except PF.. That sounds like it makes sense I guess.. Edited December 23, 2015 by bigtimelarry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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