Pasley Posted December 30, 2015 Share Posted December 30, 2015 . Being allowed to have a magwell, thumb rest and race holster just don't amount to much of an advantage at the elite levels ... Based on the scores where I shoot I don't think they make much difference at the club level either. I'm convinced that a couple of guys shoot limited for no other reason than avoiding coming in dead last in production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Zack, I got into an argument with a guy on another forum because he insisted that it was poor form not to have enough mags to shoot the whole match without reloading. I know a guy that does that for the Rimfire match. I've also seen it at GSSF matches. I can't see having that many mags for steel. I use the same 5 that I use for USPSA and it works just fine. I do have different mags for production and open guns though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Me neither. I either use 10 rd mags (rimfire) or load my CF mags to 10 only. I want my gun to have a consistent weight every time the buzzer goes off instead of having the balance change as I shoot if I shot the stage with a single big stick mag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 when you said "the whole match" did he mean NO reloading at all? so if it was an 8-stage match he expected you to have 39 mags?????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 That was the impression I got from it. Or maybe just 8 30 round big stick mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliearms Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 No way I'm carrying or buying 40 magazines for SC... 10's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 6. .... 5 for the match + 1 spare in case of failure ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted January 26, 2016 Share Posted January 26, 2016 Ditto on 6 mags, although when shooting my G34 in either open or limited I only have 5 of the +6 base equipped mags. Sometimes I carry a stock Glock mag just as the spare. With my STI I have 2 big sticks, 5 140s and a single 126 all with +1 DP basepads except the 126 which has a +3 Arredondo basepad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 This seems like another rule that could (should?) be changed. Leave the mags alone. Set a max number of rds that can be fired per string. As an example, 11. 10+1. Fire a 12th rd and 30 seconds is your time. Got a mag that holds 50? Who cares? Get after it, but fire a 12th rd and you're time is 30 seconds. This is probably too simple... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 That's going to make for a lot stupendously high scores at level 1 matches .... Since there is no competitive equity issue with the number of rounds in your mag regardless of the division you shoot, if we're going to change the rule then just make it simple across the board and say there is no longer any limit to the number of rds a competitior can load in their mags. If a Production shooter wants to step to the line with 18/19 rds in their CZ Shadow that's fine ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 That's going to make for a lot stupendously high scores at level 1 matches .... ...make it simple across the board and say there is no longer any limit to the number of rds a competitior can load in their mags. If a Production shooter wants to step to the line with 18/19 rds in their CZ Shadow that's fine ..... ok, but if someone is using 18 or 19 rds per string they're on their way to a "stupendously high score" anyway. An 11 rd (or pick a number that would be reasonable for the division) rds fired limit would encourage hitting something vs just burning ammo. NSSF Rimfire Challenge does well with an 11 rds per string limit... Even with 7 plate stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlep Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 NSSF Rimfire Challenge does well with an 11 rds per string limit... Even with 7 plate stages. Wouldn't the 10+1 round limit in NSSF rimfire Challenge more likely be due to the fact that the majority of the guns only have 10 round mags? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 NSSF Rimfire Challenge does well with an 11 rds per string limit... Even with 7 plate stages. Wouldn't the 10+1 round limit in NSSF rimfire Challenge more likely be due to the fact that the majority of the guns only have 10 round mags? My pistols have 11 rd mags for 11+1. 10 rd and 25 rd mags for rifle and I could use a 50 rd drum for 50 + 1 but the per string limit is still 11 rds. Scholastic Steel has the same 11 per string. Being time based, same as Steel Challenge, if you need more than 11 rds you might be better off saving the ammo for practice... It is rare to see anyone "shooting empty". I don't get to shoot Steel Challenge as often as NSSF Rimfire Challenge (and then it's usually an "outlaw" match) but when I do I don't see shooters burninig 20 rds per string. Most seem to figure out there's a point of diminishing returns. Is your experience different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 (edited) As a MD customer service is paramount to me (after safety of course) so I don't want to tell my shooters how to suck eggs ..... if they want to burn 15 rds on every stage run I'm fine with that .... once they hit 30 secs I stop them but that's it. Last year I had an out-of-town family on vacation show up to my match: dad, mom, daughter & 2 sons. I put them on my squad to ensure they had a good experience .... after the 2nd stage I started referring to them as the 'machine gun Kelly' family. Without exception each one of them would easily go through 2 mags ... on EVERY run of EVERY stage .... We were only doing 6 stage matches back then but the 5 of them went through several hundred rds EACH .... and they were having a blast. I had to stop them a couple of times when they hit the 30 sec time limit but they usually figured out how to hit all 5 targets on a run with 15-18 rds .... I always remind shooters during the mandatory shooter's brief that the object of the competition is to hit the white metal plates & not the 2x4s but it never seems to do a whole lot of good ... Edited January 28, 2016 by Nimitz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmj3 Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Well if it would level the playing field and it follows USPSA Minor PF Rules, seems like a good idea to me. I'm talking 125 PF for ALL Centerfire guns. It doesn't have any impact on Limited or Open, you can download your .40 cal or do whatever you want. It just weeds the BS 100 or 105 PF stuff out.. I see the problem now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 what exactly is the problem with "BS 100 or 105 PF stuff ..."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I don't know either. Yeah there are revolver guys in my club that shoot steel matches with ammo built to .38 Short Colt specs that sometimes can't knockdown a heavy steel plate. All the open division guys in my club either shoot some variation of 38Super/9x23/9Major with an STI (me included) except for me and another guy who shoot our optic equipped Glocks at around 140 PF. The top guys are going to take advantage of the rules no matter what. In the electronic stop plate days they ran 95-105g bullets at Major power factor (like 1500-1600 FPS) so they could make the plate go off quicker and also why they used to fire 2-3 rounds at the stop plate. Now with the last shot counting for time and no electronic stop plate they have to shoot different. You still need to shoot a high PF because open guns won't function or make enough gas to work the comp. So many shoot 9mm because a shorter case can be made to cycle faster (compared to the 38Super/9x23 calibers). With no bottom floor, yes guys in Limited/Prod/SS could shoot lightweight bullets at lower velocities to reduce recoil and muzzle flip (depending on if the class invokes the USPSA rulebook). Point is the guys doing that are likely the best shooters and they are doing it to compete against the other good shooters. They are going to beat everyone else just as bad if they have to shoot 125 PF. The guys who run the powderpuff loads who are not the top shooters won't shoot a lot better than they do if the limit was 125 PF. Its more of a psychological thing and by whining about it means what they are doing is working against you anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 Its like one of my other activities, photography. Marketing and media makes you think that if you buy the best camera out there you will become at great photographer. Nothing could be father from the truth. A really good photographer can use anything from a smart phone on up and make it look good. Same with shooting as a top shooter could be given a Kahr and he would still beat everyone below his level regardless of what they are shooting. The skill level transcends the equipment level. Be it shooting, racing, photography or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 It's just another excuse to rationalize why they are getting beat ... Couldn't have anything to do with the fact that the guys who beat them every month train 5 times as hard as they do .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted January 29, 2016 Share Posted January 29, 2016 I remember a comment from Arnold Palmer one time. He sinks a 40" putt to win a major and some guys says "man was that a lucky shot". Arnie's response was "And you know what? I find that the more I practice the luckier I get". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fmj3 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 what exactly is the problem with "BS 100 or 105 PF stuff ..."? Nothing. The problem is with the people that use the term "BS" to describe legal ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 I actually heard the following conversation at a match ... Dude #1: "Man that guy is good, he wins like every match he shoots ..." Dude #2: "Yeah but I don't think that's really fair because I heard he also practices like every day ... " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjordan78 Posted January 30, 2016 Share Posted January 30, 2016 Hahahaha!!!! Typical mindset... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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