Offhand Rifle shooting

[Headworked]

We shot the Blue Ridge Mountain Challenge 3 gun match this past weekend, and there were 3 stages that had offhand rifle shots, taken while standing... Stage 9 had a couple of 8" steel at 100 yards and 2 at 125 yds. Stage 8 had 5 steel targets between 70-85 yards, but were at a steep downhill angle, and Stage 2 had shots at 175 yards, 150 yards, and 130 yards roughly, on an IPSC metric target.

Both stages 8 and 9 were field courses, where you moved into position, took the shots, and moved on to finish the stages like normal. Stage 2 was a Standards stage, where you stood in one place, and only had 12-15 seconds to complete the stated course of fire (3 rounds, or 4 rounds, or a few rounds here then move there with couple more rounds), or occasionally shot in place, then rushed to another position to finish string...

I was able to get all the 8" steel on stage 8 and stage 9 without any trouble, but the much larger IPSC target at 175yards proved to be much tougher to hit well in 12-15 seconds. So that leads me to my question: What is the best technique for getting good hits out past 150 yards while standing, shooting offhand? I found it difficult to hold steady on the target.. I talked to a few folks, and they mentioned doing a tiny figure 8 slowly, and breaking shots when one is approaching the 'intersection'... Of course, this is a technique that I never practice, and will get added to the routine in the future... most of the time, we are shooting off of a barricade, prone on the ground, or kneeling... and when we do take offhand shots, they are inside 100 yards, usually much closer...

Edited October 20, 2015 by Headworked

[Dan Sierpina]

You need to stand more perpendicular to the target, not facing it like shooting pistol. Look at how highpower shooters stand at 200 yards.

[JackOAT]

Tagged for info in this too. I can't hold on target offhand to save my life. I have always had to slowly ease across onto target and try to time the trigger pull. It's the only method I've had any success with, but can result in trigger jerk.

[Bryan 45]

For our game, I approach it the same as any other target.

I use the same stance, I hold the rifle the same.

What I do different than others is practice though. I shoot offhand at 50 to 100 almost every time I go shooting. 6" MGM autopoppers are great targets for this. One at 50 and one at 100- go between alternating back and forth or 2 rounds on the one at 50 then 2 rounds on the one at 100. Practice dry firing at small targets too, focus on the sight picture and a perfectly timed trigger press. It's no different than breaking a great shot on a pistol, just takes practice that most don't do.

Just don't shoot more than about 15-20 rounds at a time offhand though as I find you start getting sloppy on the shot, hoping to ambush or trap the target instead of holding the rifle steady and breaking a good shot. Shoot a little offhand, then a few rounds supported, or even go to a different gun, before going back to offhand again.

[Headworked]

Bryan,

That's some good info... practice would definitely improve the outcome...

What was the longest pistol shot we had on stage 2? 110? 120?

[Bryan 45]

Trey, I was thinking either 75 or 100 yards. I don't think it was over 100. Everything looks further when it's up or down hill.

[Headworked]

I had 6 misses on rifle (3 @175, 3 @150, 4 misses on pistol, 2 slug misses, and (gasp!) one shot miss...(was rushing to get to next gun)

So... although I didn't do well at the Standards stage, I still managed to get a 32 out of 156 after not really unbagging my gear in 5 or 6 weeks...Last time was ProAm, and rifle quit working for 3 of the 8 stages...

maybe next year I can get back to practicing, and clean this up somewhat!

Edited October 20, 2015 by Headworked

[SCAR]

I set up my MGM spinner at 100M in my yard and shooting it standing for practice. I think for 3 gun it has elevated my standing skill immensely.

[The Donald]

I practice on some hanging steel targets. Has one 10" round and four 8" round targets. I practice the 8" offhand at 50 yds and the 10" at 100 yds. You need to practice at least every other week if not weekly. I also stand and hold my rifle like I did when I shot High Power.

You also need good ammo, not hoser grade ammo.

[HRider]

I practice standing and shooting offhand (when I actually go to the range). I also dryfire much more than I actually shoot. I will focus on the screw in the switchplate of a light switch (pretend that it is a plate) and see how long I can keep the rifle steady. Like Bryan, I keep more of the same stance as I would with a pistol (not totally straight, but not sideways either, not saying it is right, it works for me) and get my support hand as far out on the handguard as I can for maximum leverage. I believe that this is one area that dry fire really helps you with. It tones the muscles used to hold the rifle steady.

Hurley

Edited to clarify shooting position.

HR

Edited October 25, 2015 by HRider

[slemmo]

I approach the target from below, break the shot when the dot is where I want to hit, and go down and come up from below again.

Here's shooting a 12" target at 100 yards. 6 shots in 4.25 seconds using this technique. The reason I'm looking back is to check my hits on the electronic screen...You'll just have to take my word that they were all hits

If the target is smaller or further away I will just do the same, but slower.

Edited October 25, 2015 by slemmo

[Jesse Tischauser]

Patience is key for me. Off hand shooting is so much slower then everything else that it's hard to slow down the timer in your head enough to wait for the sights. One thing I have to do is tell myself to breathe every shot or two as well. If I shoot more then 3 without a breathe things get bad.

[Jim Norman]

IMNSHO, what most of us need to do is actually practice SHOOTING. Yes, Stand up, shoot your rifle at small targets sort of like shooting a high-power match or for pistol sort of like a bullseye match, SG? Try trap, Skeet, 5-Stand, Sporting Clays. What we do is not like any of them, but it uses all the skill sets. We just do it from odd positions in shorter times with an elevated heart rate and panting from running too far as out of shape fat old people.

You cannot expect to hit a small target standing in the condition you will be in at a 3-gun if you can't do it just standing up, taking your time and shooting. Too many people think building a practice stage and running through it shooting 30-40 rounds, and repeating this half a dozen times is practicing. It isn't. Look at each individual skill set we need, each type of position we need to get into, shoot just a couple rounds, verify your hits, rest, repeat. Also, if you miss, STOP. Practice does not make perfect! Perfect Practice Makes Perfect. If your practice allows you to miss, you will. If you miss, stop, analyze why, repeat the drill. I am not saying you shouldn't practice quick make up shots, that you shouldn't practice using your match saver, or doing an 'Oh-Crap' reload, but you need to perfect your basic shooting if you want to advance your action shooting. How many of us will go to the range and shoot 25 rounds of slow fire at a reduced target on a regular basis? There is not a bullseye shooter worth his salt that would run 40 yards to shoot an A-zone target from 10 yards, he'd hit the target from the line. Not saying we should do that in a match, but our skills should be such that we should be able to. This holds for Rifle, Pistol and SG.

For the record, I planned to do all this, I only do a very small part of it due to time constraints. A problem most of us have.

[Therealkoop]

Find a magnification you like for offhand shots, and get used to it. Ive heard many people complain about how they normally use X power but used X instead and couldnt get on target.

Learn to deal with the wobble. It will always exist, no matter what you do. The more you learn how your body moves the easier it will be to predict. I cant say I agree with drawing figure 8's. If I could consciously draw shapes I would probably be better off just drawing my dot right to the target.

Respect the trigger. It might not seem like it matters too much on an offhand target, but those small split seconds are enough to turn what looks like a hit into a miss.

As far as standing position, I would just do whatever is comfortable. For 3 gun purposes I just hold the rifle in the same manner I would for any other rifle target.

[SteveT-NV]

I pull the rifle up into my shoulder snug, but not trying to force it. If you force the position, the tension can cause more problems. I also prefer my arm out as far as I can on the hand guard.

To me the critical thing in off hand is learning to accept the wobble and work with it. If you panic when you see the cross hairs bouncing around, then it will usually just get worse. Everyone has some amount of wobble and the wobble can often change from day to day depending on you. The wobble can sometimes change from side to side, or up to down. Sometimes creating a controlled wobble can be helpful. This can be done in a side to side, up and down, down to up or a figure of eight.

Practice breaking the shot just as the cross hairs are coming over the target. When you break the shot will depend on the speed of your wobble and the distance to the target. You absolutely have to practice at different distances to get an idea of when you need to break the shot.

Accept the wobble, work with it and the wobble can be your friend!

A drill that I like to practice offhand shots is to set up 3 shooting positions ~ 5 yards apart with a MGM Flasher or similar target at ~ 100 yds. From the first position shoot until you get 3 hits, run to the next position repeat and then repeat in the last position. When you get comfortable at 100 yds move the target out. Try and get comfortable out to 175 yds or so.

More tips in this thread - http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=201142&hl=%2Boffhand#entry2237085

Edited October 29, 2015 by SteveT-NV

[Maize]

Had my first all offhand practice today 8inch paper plates at 65 and 53 yards. Shot them as Bryan suggested except I ran 8 yards and picked the rifle up off the ground each time. Still learning what is my best stance and where I need my hand on the hand guard.I also seemed to aim low and hit lower. The Vortex sure got heavy after a hour and a half. Will be doing a lot more of this this winter.

[Dan Sierpina]

Had my first all offhand practice today 8inch paper plates at 65 and 53 yards. Shot them as Bryan suggested except I ran 8 yards and picked the rifle up off the ground each time. Still learning what is my best stance and where I need my hand on the hand guard.I also seemed to aim low and hit lower. The Vortex sure got heavy after a hour and a half. Will be doing a lot more of this this winter.

Maize,

Try the standing position you use for smallbore. Dryfire a lot with your 3 gun AR, watch the wobble of the crosshair, most important is the squeeze and follow through.

[mpeltier]

Technique and practice are always good advice. I have found the best gains in off hand shooting to come from improving core strength. Get yourself in better shape with some simple exercises like sit ups crunches etc and you will see the wobble get less and less. Of course this isn't the easy answer.

[CrashDodson]

when you guys are talking about off hand rifle shooting....is that the same as weak hand pistol shooting?

[Bryan 45]

when you guys are talking about off hand rifle shooting....is that the same as weak hand pistol shooting?

No, that would be support side shooting rifle.

Off hand is standing up with the only support being your two feet touching the round earth.

[kurtm]

It's flat you Heretic!

[slemmo]

The reason off hand shooting is difficult is because the earth is round...obviously, standing on a flat surface would be a lot better.

Edited November 20, 2015 by slemmo

[CrashDodson]

Thanks....I guess the term "offhand" was throwing me off. This weekend we have a 3 gun stage with the "offhand" wording and I was worried it was "weakhand".

The stage is simple...shoot falling steel with shotgun, steel silhouette with pistol, and then 2 10" steel plates and a plate rack at 150 yards "offhand".

My son is shooting air rifle with the local 4h club. They teach them to stand shifting their weight forward and resting their support elbow on their hip. Would this method be too slow for 3gun? My long distance rifle skills is what is holding me back at our 3gun matches.

[ziebart]

A 150 yard standing plate rack is no joke. Take the time to get into the 4h stance if it helps you.

While most in 3 gun know what offhand means, it confuses many coming from other sports. Standing unsupported is a better description, but it is two words so people don't use it.

[P.E. Kelley]

I employ Slemmo's technique (he does it very well!). Some call it "approach shooting". Break the shot on the target as you "approach" it.