TexzDiver Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I am just now trying to get into the pistol shooting sports and will be attending my first ever match just as a spectator at the Double Tap Ranch here in my hometown this weekend. I have pretty much decided that I am going to shoot Limited 10 and Limited with a custom or semi-custom built STI based gun. I would however like something I can shoot in the production class as well that will not break the bank since I will already be laying out the big bucks on the Limited/Limited 10 gun. What would some of your suggestions be and why? Also, should I get a production gun that is .40 S&W so that it shoots the same thing my Limited/Limited 10 gun does or would it be better to go with a 9mm. Thanks in advance for any info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay1 Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you want to shoot minor, I do, the Glock 34 is very popular and it is very reasonably priced compared to something like a SVI. If you want to shoot limited or limited 10 A Glock 35 is popular also. At the nationals last year the SVI framed guns were the guns of choice and the Paras were quite popular too according to the equipment survey. Have fun shopping and it would be wonderful if you could at least handle some of the guns before you bought them and see how they fit you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 A Springfield XD in .40. I would have RIIID do the trigger and the sights, as his work kicks butt. I like the way the Springfield fits my hand better than a Glock, and I just don't like the safety on the trigger of the Glock. The feel of the thing drives me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 First, welcome to the Forums, they are truely the single best source for competition shooting info anywhere.... And welcome to The Doubletap Ranch, the match this weekend will be very large and you should have lots to see - try not to let it overwhelm you, our normal monthly matches usually have 20 - 30 people Glad to hear you will coming out; our regular club matches are normally 2nd Sunday, and 4th Saturday..... no 4th Sat match this month due to Easter. So, please come back and visit us again in April (April 10th? and April 23rd? and make sure to bring a pistol and jump right in! Or we can lend you one, just let us know you're coming) As to what kind of pistol to shoot, there is no argument that most prefer the STI or SVI type guns in Limited.... but many shoot Para, Glock, etc. and do very well.... practice time behind the trigger is more important than the gun (to a point). Production class sees a lot of Glocks, some Berettas, Sigs, Springfield XDs, CZs, etc.... each is unique, and everyone has there own preference. But Glock seems to be a favorite for price/reliabilty/"ready to go out of the box" factor. I'll bring my Glock to the next match if you'd like to try it out.... I'll be a range officer on one of the stages this weekend, so I doubt I'll have a chance to talk to you, but next time your'e out our way ask for Shaun. Or anyone else, they're all a friendly bunch of guys. See ya soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 If you are shooting a steel frame .40 in L/L-10; there is a good reason to select a similar (and familiar) steel frame for Production. While glocks work fine (its all I shoot in GSSF & for CCW) for Production, I like the steel frame CZ. Any advantage to a steel frame DA 9mm? Sig & Beretta seem to think so. Both Sig & Beretta's flagship guns were their DA 9mms; the Model 92 our troops carry in Iraq & the Sig 226. Both featured ALLOY aluminum frames only until last year. Suddenly both companies started offering steel frame versions of their flagship 9mm autos. WHY!??!?! Cheaper? no. Better for CCW? Of course not. Aluminum not able to stand up to 9mm recoil? No - aluminum is strong enough. They offered steel frames for competition use. That is not to say that an alloy or plastic gun can't compete (obvioulsy they can & do) but many shooters have compared light to heavy frames and prefer a heavy frame. SHooting 1/2 a year of USPSA with a GLock 17 (the GSSF model) was frustrating for me. Picking up a CZ-75B was love at first sight picture. I now shoot an 85 Combat with a 15 lb trigger spring. Regards, D.C. Johnson www.shootersparadise.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enutees Posted March 17, 2005 Share Posted March 17, 2005 I'm shooting a CZ75 in production. I've tried a Glock 35 and a Para P18 lda 9mm. CZ is my favorite so far and I owned it before the other two. After searching for the perfect I realzed I already had it. I don't even have to reload for it. I buy Blazer for $3.86 for 50. It recoils a little more than my powder puff 147 grain loads but it feels quicker to me. I think I like a lighter bullet. If you can shoot a glock ( I can't) it is always a goods choice. Try a CZ if you can get your hands on one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I am just now trying to get into the pistol shooting sports and will be attending my first ever match just as a spectator at the Double Tap Ranch here in my hometown this weekend. I have pretty much decided that I am going to shoot Limited 10 and Limited with a custom or semi-custom built STI based gun. I would however like something I can shoot in the production class as well that will not break the bank since I will already be laying out the big bucks on the Limited/Limited 10 gun. What would some of your suggestions be and why? Also, should I get a production gun that is .40 S&W so that it shoots the same thing my Limited/Limited 10 gun does or would it be better to go with a 9mm. Thanks in advance for any info! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It sounds like you just want to play a bit in Production and Lim/Lim10 is what you are serious about. If that is the case, it's time for a gunshop tour. Look over the used gun cases at the local shops. You should be able to find a used G17, XD9 or CZ75 cheap. Figure $400 or so for a mildly used G17, mid 3s for an XD and $300 or less for a used CZ. Decide which one feels better to your hand. Which points easier. There's your Production gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashdown Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Since you're just getting into action pistol, I would suggest you start with Production division. That would allow you to begin with the least investment possible. In the meantime, learn the game and gain knowledge from the Limited/L10 shooters. Ask to shoot a few guns to see if it's something you're sure you like. $2-3000+ for a race gun, plus mags, holsters, etc is an expensive way to start the game. That being said, I started the game with a Glock 19. It's all I had that could compete at the time. I switched to a Beretta 92G Elite II a couple years ago. I just loved the way it felt in my hand and I liked the extra factory-custom tweaks. I was not afraid of the DA to SA transition and it has not hampered my game one bit. My lack of practice has! Now I'm going to test the waters on the dark side once again and try out a Glock 35 (that I acquired on this forum). The .40 caliber will allow me to shoot Production, and later slap on a magwell and a race holster and go for Limited or L10. There are many guns that can be competitive. The one that fits your hand best, has ergonomic controls that fit you, and one you practice with most will be your best bet. splashdown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenG Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I don't even have to reload for it. I buy Blazer for $3.86 for 50. It recoils a little more than my powder puff 147 grain loads but it feels quicker to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where do you find Blazer for that price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 For production I'd personally go either Springfield XD or the CZ. I've shot both, both have their attributes - both are good guns. For Lim/Lim 10 no doubt the S_I guns are the dominant characters but don't discount the virtues of a steel framed gun. Shoot both and see what you like. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe D Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Why not just get a Glock 35 for Production, Limited, Limited 10? You can be just as competitive with a Glock. Let's see $1,800 for a STI Edge vs. $550 for a Glock. The Glock will not be the limiting factor in your move up the ladder. Shot an IPSC match a couple of weeks ago. The guns that jammed the most were the STI/SVI types. Glocks? They just kept going. If a STI was priced in the $900-$1000 price range, like it should be, then it could be an option. I am still waiting for someone to justify the high cost of the STI guns when dealer cost of a BUL M5 is $570. What is wrong with this picture? Please don't try and tell me how much better the STI/SVI guns are put together. I have worked on too many of them. The manufacturing costs to make a STI are not any more than a Kimber. They certainly are not put together any better. I guess when there is a monopoly one can charge as much as the market will bear. Economics 101 will tell you there is still a monopoly when there are only two competitors in any field. Where are you Cy? Tell them about your Glock-STI-Glock adventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 i like the glock 34 or 35 (downloaded of course). the glocks sit lower in your hand hence less recoil than the xd. cz is nice if you like an all steel gun. the glock trigger pull is always the same every time, not sure about the xd or cz though. with a little filing and polishing the glock trigger is very tasty. glock parts are cheap and if something breaks on the range chance are if you don't have the part someone will. mags are cheap too. like others have said the glock 35 will shoot in three divisions in uspsa and two divisions in idpa. i believe it the most versatile gun on the market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 Definately get a CZ. A 75 or 85 or 85 Combat, get Angus or I to breathe on it, and go to town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precision40 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 I don't even have to reload for it. I buy Blazer for $3.86 for 50. It recoils a little more than my powder puff 147 grain loads but it feels quicker to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Where do you find Blazer for that price? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Academy Sports has them for $3.86/50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 The CZ would be my second choice, my first is the XD. The XD fits into the hand like a 1911, trigger is to die for after a little tweeking. Go with a .40 so you can use it in Production and Lim-10. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dghboy315 Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 i vote for the Beretta 92G elite II. why? b/c it fits my hand and it goes bang every time. my dad has an XD-9 and it feels great, but we are having extractor problems and it is still a new gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexzDiver Posted March 18, 2005 Author Share Posted March 18, 2005 Joe D originally posted...Why not just get a Glock 35 for Production, Limited, Limited 10? You can be just as competitive with a Glock. Let's see $1,800 for a STI Edge vs. $550 for a Glock. The Glock will not be the limiting factor in your move up the ladder. Shot an IPSC match a couple of weeks ago. The guns that jammed the most were the STI/SVI types. Glocks? They just kept going. If a STI was priced in the $900-$1000 price range, like it should be, then it could be an option. I am still waiting for someone to justify the high cost of the STI guns when dealer cost of a BUL M5 is $570. What is wrong with this picture? Please don't try and tell me how much better the STI/SVI guns are put together. I have worked on too many of them. The manufacturing costs to make a STI are not any more than a Kimber. They certainly are not put together any better. I guess when there is a monopoly one can charge as much as the market will bear. Economics 101 will tell you there is still a monopoly when there are only two competitors in any field. Where are you Cy? Tell them about your Glock-STI-Glock adventures. Well Joe D, tell us how you really feel I realize that Glock seems to be the answer to every pistol question, and I guess I will ultimately at least go out and try one if I can. I just do not like the way the Glock feels in my hand. Whenever I am checking out guns in the local gun shops I always pick them up and sort of instinctively point them, then I look down the sites. I can tell you that after doing this with many different pistols that the only guns that are pointing right where they should be are always 1911s or Browning HPs. I am not a gun expert, and I don't know why those two gun styles just seem to feel better to me, but they do. Now, I don't know if that means that I need to be shooting a 1911 or Browning HP or if I simply need to try them all out and see what works best for me. Having not played the pistol games before I don't know how much intstincts are involved with the sport, but if the pistol games are anything like shotgun sports or unaided 3-D archery(both of which I am pretty good at) I can tell you that I will do better with a gun that points more like the 1911 or Browning HP. I have not yet held an XD or a CZ gun yet, and I have been told by many who also like the feel of the 1911 that the CZ and XD point more like a 1911 style gun than anything else. As for the STI guns costing so much I really don't have an opinion on that. I do however know that the best of anything is usually the not ever the cheapest. Joe D, You also talk about all the problems with the S_I type guns, however when I talk to people who have had guns built by reputable builders on S_I frames they don't seem to be having all of these problems, and I seriously doubt that if the S_I guns had all the problems that you are trying to lead me to believe they have that they would be the dominant force in pistol shooting that they are...Nope, I just ain't buying that one buddy!! Now does that mean that a man can't go out and whip up on everybody with a Glock, hell no it doesn't. Oh well, I can't wait to attend my fiorst match tomorrow at the Double Tap Ranch, and I am hoping some folks will let me check out their gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 "I have been told by many who also like the feel of the 1911 that the CZ and XD point more like a 1911 style gun than anything else." After going back & forth on this, I have concluded that the Czechs borrowed a lot from the Browning High Power in creating the CZ-75, 85, and 85 Combat. Compare the early (pre-70s) High Power barrel hood to a CZ-75B barrel hood; identical. If you like the Browning, you will really like the CZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hold Fast Posted March 18, 2005 Share Posted March 18, 2005 If you are shooting a steel frame .40 in L/L-10; there is a good reason to select a similar (and familiar) steel frame for Production. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I concur 100%. I started shooting IPSC with a Glock 22, and then moved on to the G35. I could shoot both well, and liked the simplicity and reliability of the Glock. Wanting to see if an S_I could improve my game I switch to an STI Edge and really, really liked the feel of the more solid steel frame. After shooting Limited with the STI for a while, I decided to try the Glock again in Production, and it just never felt right again. I found it flex'd a lot more during recoil and was a lot more difficult to get back on target. If it were me, I would stay with a steel frame if you plan on making your ST your main firearm. Beyond that, get out and try as many as you can and see what feels right for you. I find choosing a right firearm is as much about ergonomics, what feels right, as anything else. And as for ammo, for simplicity sake I would stick with the .40 rather than introducing 9mm. Just easier, my 2 cents anyways. Glad to see you getting involved in this awesome sport, enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddrod Posted March 19, 2005 Share Posted March 19, 2005 Well, I am a new CZ85 convert. I recieved my CZ today after having Matt Mink do the trigger and put the new hammer on it and I just love it. It has anice weight to it and is very accurate. Go CZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTevolution Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I think that for anyone looking to purchase a gun everyone here has narrowed it down to the elite ones. I personally love the glock, but the STI is an awesome gun. If you have a good gunsmith and find the right ammo, you should be set. As far as which gun to select, it's all a matter of tailoring everything to fit your needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 glock parts are cheap and if something breaks on the range chance are if you don't have the part someone will. mags are cheap too. like others have said the glock 35 will shoot in three divisions in uspsa and two divisions in idpa. i believe it the most versatile gun on the market. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, what LTD40 said... If you want to make it more versatile get a Glock22, then your pistola would also be IPSC legal for Production. The big question to TEX should be... DO YOU RELOAD? If yes, then a G22 or 35 would be a good choice for Production after you develop a minor load that works for you. I wouldn't like to shoot production with factory ammo. If you will be getting a limited racegun anyway, then search for the production gun that works better for you, pick it up and practice. I shoot an Edge in L/L10 and a G17 in Production. However, the gun that felt better in my hand was the first one I ever had, an EAA Witness (Tanfoglio)... it didn't work but felt good anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Hostetter Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 I shot the Glock 17 and 34 in Production for several years and was fairly happy with them. However if I was to shot Production now I would go with the 5" XD. If you think you might want to move up to L-10 get one in 40, if not, get a 9mm. The triggers can be made very short and light with a little work and accuracy with a fitted match barrel is excellent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syme71 Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 I'm new to IPSC as well and shoot a Glock 35. I would recommend a G35 for the following reasons: 1. Reliable 2. Cheap mags, readily available 3. Wider range of holster makers 4. .40 cal in minor shoots just as soft as 9mm (at least that's how it feels to me) 5. Lots of places to buy spare parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 There will be plenty of these guns at your next match, take some factory ammo and ask to shoot them, most guys will be more than willing to let you shoot their gun. I did this when trying to decide on a Glock 26 vs. a Glock 27 for a summer carry gun, and shooting them repeatedly at targets side by side helped me choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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