rgp0104 Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Hello all, I have an sti based 2011 open gun. I'm experiencing problems with dot dipping of the red dot and am trying to work out if it's me or the gun, I have experimented with a few different grips and grip strengths and cannot seem to make it go away. The gun is an sti lower with a full length dust cover with a caspian slide with almost no lightening apart from a small amount (about half of what a factory trubor has removed) above the firing pin channel on top of the rear of the slide. It has a schumann hybricomp barrel with 4 holes and a 4 port steel comp. am running a 7lb recoil spring as it wouldn't reliably run anything heavier. Load is 9.6gr 3n38 and have tried other loads with similar results. My question is does this gun sound like it is too front heavy with too much slide mass? I can accept if it's my grip or something I'm doing just want a second opinion. Any help much appreciated. Cheers Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I assuming when you say " dot dipping of the red dot" you mean as you break the shot? Does the dot rise & then fall? I'm certainly no gumsmith so I won't comment about the gun but what you're describing sounds like classic anticipating recoil or pushing ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Do you mean the second shot is low? I experience this when recoil spring is too heavy. When firing a fast double at 7 yards is one shot centered and the other low? If so try reducing recoil spring weight. Obviously if you are talking singles, or just low hits in general you could have a trigger control issue, but seem reasonably likely that some tuning may help. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 I'm experiencing problems with dot dipping of the red dot and am trying to work out if it's me or the gun, As mentioned above, it could be you or your springs ... Could also be the Chalice of Shooting - your comp might be so effective, with that load, that the gun is being pushed DOWN instead of up by the recoil and blast. If you fire a single shot, slowly, where does the dot go? up or down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towely Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Get someone to load an unknown number of rounds in your mag, maybe between 4 and 9 rounds then shoot a close target bill drill styles. What happens to your sights when you finaly get to the click? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgp0104 Posted August 2, 2015 Author Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sorry shoud have mentioned the dot does rise but then over travels below centre after the shot. Ive tried 7, 8, 9 and 10lb springs so far and it seems to get better the lighter i go but cant go any lighter than 7.i may be pushing trying to counter the recoil, i havnt been shooting open for long. It doesnt seem to happen on my glock open gun tho which has an aluminium comp and isnt as heavy. Thanks for the replys so far guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo-Hombre Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Get someone to load an unknown number of rounds in your mag, maybe between 4 and 9 rounds then shoot a close target bill drill styles. What happens to your sights when you finaly get to the click? Not always a good indicator. Although the "ball and dummy" drill can identify bad trigger control,,, I know some very good master class shooters that have a sort of post ignition push or recoil anticipation. From your follow up description if sounds like a tuning issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olemiss Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 (edited) I just started shooting open and have experienced something similar with one of my open guns, both 9mm. Gun 1: Single stack 9mm steel challenge pistol: steel single stack frame, slide cut to 4.5 inches and lightened considerably, 3 port comp, CMore, 8 lb recoil spring. Gun 2: Major 9mm pistol: STI frame, 5 inch slide, lightened considerable, 4 port Ti comp, CMore, 9 lb recoil spring. Shooting 150 PF loads (7.5 g HS6 with 115 g JHP) in the single stack steel gun (Gun 1) - the dot rises slightly and comes right back to the middle of the lens. Shooting this same load in my STI frame open 9mm (Gun 2) - the dot rises slightly but then dips slightly before returning to the center of the lens. Shooting 175 PF loads (9.0g 3N37, 115 g JHP) in Gun 2 has similar results (dot dipping after rising), but cycles faster and the dot is easier to track. I think it has to do with the center of mass being different on the two pistols. The polymer STI frame is lighter meaning more weight percentage above my hands, while the steel frame gun has more weight percentage in my hands. I have tried running an 8 lb spring in the STI with the same results: still have slight dot dipping. I am going to experiment with grip pressure and stance and see if I can reduce the dip. Edited August 3, 2015 by olemiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
selecw Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 When I get gun dip it is a function of the combination of recoil spring and bullet weight. You need to align those with your and the guns timing. Experiment with different spring and bullet weights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glk21C Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Hello all, I have an sti based 2011 open gun. The gun is an sti lower with a full length dust cover ... It has a schumann hybricomp barrel with 4 holes and a 4 port steel comp. I'm still fairly new to the 2011 open world but a full length dust cover with a sight-tracker type of barrel and a steel comp seems like a LOT of weight up front. Hopefully you get it figured out, good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Elliott Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Can you post any video of it? While the gun may indeed be too heavy in the nose (extra mass = extra momentum), most people who struggle with this nose-diving issue (in any Division) can fix it with correct grip mechanics. Full length dust covers and full profile slides in Limited Division can be tuned and gripped to recoil to neutral, as can an open gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I choose a recoil spring that will eject the brass 3-5' to my right. After that, it's all about grip. I don't know if this is the right or wrong way, but I vary my grip to match the load for two handed shooting. Too much pressure and down rotation with my weak hand invariably results in the dot going up, then below horizontal, then back up to the center. If I relax my weak hand grip a little, especially the "wrist lock" bit, the dot rises and then settles back to the center. That's why I've standardized my loads to one minor and one major for each caliber. 172-175PF and 140PF. It works perfectly well for me as long as I remember to relax during a competition. If the adrenaline gets pumping, I'll squeeze too hard and the dot dips. When I relax, follow the plan and Wyatt Earp's advice, "go slow quickly", I have no trouble. What constantly amazes me is, I'm faster when I'm not trying to be fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kneelingatlas Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 It definitely sounds like your gun would benefit from a supermodel diet! I would start with an aluminum guide rod, it could probably stand to lose an ounce or two out of the slide, then if you want to keep going you might chop the dust cover and switch to a Ti comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgp0104 Posted August 4, 2015 Author Share Posted August 4, 2015 Thanks alot for all the helfull replies guys. I have sent the slide off for some lightning cuts. I was experimenting with some grips and a very light grip stopped the dipping but it felt too light for good gun control. I weighed the slide and it came in at 11.3oz. And barrel was 12.7oz. I can understand a full lenth dust cover is a good thing in a limited gun to help tame muzzle flip but its not such an issue in open guns. I dont seem to see any open guns with full lenth dust covers for some reason. So just to wait for the slide to come back from its diet and hopfully will improve things and at the worst it will at least look cool ☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 The more you experiment the more you will have that problem. Its a timing issue that involves you and your gun. Give it time to work each other out. Stick with a reliable and accurate set up and practice it A LOT. Jmo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troupe Posted August 4, 2015 Share Posted August 4, 2015 As mentioned earlier in a post of the single stack gun tracking one way with the load and the double stack gun tracking different with the same load. It is all in the grip. Takes time to work out, but you will get it soon with enough rounds down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jid2 Posted August 5, 2015 Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you want a lightweight titanium comp visit my vendor section, I've got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgp0104 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you want a lightweight titanium comp visit my vendor section, I've got one. Id love one but im in australia and not sure on being able to post here without paperwork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgp0104 Posted August 5, 2015 Author Share Posted August 5, 2015 If you want a lightweight titanium comp visit my vendor section, I've got one. Id love one but im in australia and not sure on being able to post here without paperwork Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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